Conservatives

oleman47 · 05-09-2001, 03:28 PM

I think that the core concept of the new conservaticism is racial profiling. The outgrowth of the successful policy called the "southern strategy" to appeal to racism and stereotypes has worked to an amazing degree. To see the crap on this BBS is sick. This is not a matter of "culturism" this is blatant, core value racism. What is sad is the almost univeral acceptance by those opposed and the proponents.

aturnis · 05-09-2001, 03:44 PM

Well.......I like boobies, they are nice! :)

Lightning Rod · 05-09-2001, 03:45 PM

Are there people on this BB that are racist? With the # of people on here, logically one would have to assume so. To assume someone is a racist because they are Conservative, Liberal, Agnostic, Black, White or Christian is simply ignorant. This is the same kind of stereotyping that you are complaining about. If you think a statement by someone is racist in nature, by all means ask that person for an explanation. The constant cries of bigotry, sexism, etc. have become so common that they have lost their impact. To many people crying wolf muddies the waters.

HC_Chief · 05-09-2001, 04:23 PM

My goodness ole, aren't we the pot calling the kettle black? You just applied a stereotype to an entire group of people - ignorantly labeling them something you do not know them to be.

The irony... the hypocrisy...

oleman47 · 05-09-2001, 04:37 PM

I am profiling. I am stereotyping. I am pointing to what I consider the bedrock of the new conservaticism. It is based mostly on personal interaction with conservatives. My world has been almost all conservative. Stocks, Repubs, suburbs, good life. A white, German, what is there to doubt. What has turned me off is the stupid supply side economics which will kill us and the idea that consumers are the enemy. Then to add to this, is the concept of superiority so evident under facism. You guys may class me as liberal, but for me I embody all that is good, and what the framers were really talking about. I have been were many of you are, I simply out grew it, and also found it to be BS.

Gaz · 05-09-2001, 04:37 PM

This is perhaps the most monstrous display of hypocrisy it has ever been my misfortune to read.

xoxo~
Gaz
Disgusted.

oleman47 · 05-09-2001, 05:09 PM

Gaz
When someone called me a socialist pinko, and I retorted he was a facist. You called me out for my remark but nothing about the attacker. You also said that you may not reply to my posts thereafter.

old_geezer · 05-09-2001, 05:18 PM

Have you been hitting the sauce lately oleman? You seem particularly morose today. Don't let the joy of us conservatives get you down. Hope you're feeling better tomorrow. :D

LapDog · 05-09-2001, 05:23 PM

oleman47-

My earlier agreement with the 'culturism' perspective was based on personal experience. I wasn't trying to say that racism doesn't exist. I just believe that true racism is much rarer than people think it is, especially blacks who feel they are being unfairly treated. They don't know what whites are thinking. They assume it's their skin color. In many cases it's not. Keep in mind, I'm talking about whites who don't remember the 60's, not people who are somewhere around 50 or older. Younger people just haven't been exposed to the racist attitudes to the same degree as the people who actually remember when there were 'black restaurants' and 'white restaurants'.

Here's where I got my perspective. This will sound like a cliche, but bear with me for a minute. I am white, my best friend is black. We've known each other for over twenty years. In high school, we hung out together. We went to the mall to check out chicks together. We grew up in the same neighborhood; a totally white, suburban area. There were only a handfull of blacks (3-6) in the entire high school population of 1500 people. Nobody ever gave my friend any **** for being black. Nobody ever gave me any **** for hanging out with him. The reason: he fit right in.

To this day, he has never felt that he was on the receiving end of a racist remark or racist behavior. He takes responsibility for himself and his family. He educated himself and has a good job. He speaks proper English and toes the line to get ahead, just like we white people do. For all intents and purposes, he is a product of white culture, but his skin is black. How is it that a black man in his mid-30's can go his entire life without a single racist incident?

It is his, and my, firm belief that the reason for this is that he doesn't have anything to do with the 'urban' culture and it's obvious to anyone who meets him that he is a decent, law-abiding citizen who contributes to society.

Now let me talk about my own personal perspective. I have nothing but respect and admiration for my black friend. But, I've made borderline comments about black people to him, forgetting that he himself is black. He never takes offense, usually because he agrees with my perspective. If I meet a black man in an office environment who speaks English and acts like the rest of us, I don't think twice about it. I'm aware that he's black when I meet him, but I soon forget the distinction (if there is one) because he comes to work, does his job, and goes home like the rest of us.

But, if I meet an unshaven black man with a gold tooth, saying "day is" instead of "there are" and "it's one over there" instead of "there's one over there", I react pretty negatively. He fits the stereotype, so I tend not to be fair minded toward him. The black men described above don't fit the stereotype, so I think of them like I do anybody else. In no case do I treat the one who fits the stereotype badly. I do however remain more gaurded in his presence and it will take him longer to gain my trust.

Those examples illustrate my point that, for me, some black people are no different than anybody else and other black people fit the stereotype. For the latter, I watch them and guard my exposure, just in case, until they prove to me that they are good people. In other words, it's not their skin color, it's the way they present themselves to me. That determines what I think about them.

Now before everybody goes attacking me, look at yourself. I'm honest about who I am. Are you?

Furthermore, if I see a white person on Jerry Springer emulating black culture, "talk to the hand", wagging their fingers and shaking their head, I react almost as negatively as I would if it were a black person. It's a slightly different feeling, but it's still very negative. This slight difference tells me that there's some racism in there, but it's minor. The primary reaction is to the cultural communication style.

Again, don't attack me for being honest with you and myself. Look in the mirror.

This last example is another illustration that it's the culture that I have a problem with. I don't trust that white person on Jerry Springer any more than I would a black person who acted the same way.

I grew up with a neighbor who'd have nothing to do with blacks. That neighbor is over 70 now. I think it's different for previous generations, but racism in people under 40 just isn't nearly as powerful or prominent as it was for older people.

I realize I'm not everyone. I'm sure there are many whites like me. I'm sure there are some others who are truly racist, because I met one. He was nothing but hate incarnate, and I won't have anything to do with him.

Finally, I think many blacks are jumping to conclusions about whites. I'd like to point out that even if a white man is giving a black man a hard time while using racial epithets, that doesn't mean that the white man is judging the black man on skin color. It's more likely that he's judging him based on dress and behavior. Again, it's JMO.

I have one final thought on the subject. It's probably inflammatory, but it's not meant to be. I have to say it because I believe in full disclosure. It is my opinion that, comparing blacks to whites, a higher percentage of the black population is racist. Many black people are too busy accusing white people of racial hatred. They seem unwilling to take a step back and look inside themselves. They seem unwilling to step outside themselves and look at the world, and 'racial' incidents, from an objective point of view. I believe if they did, more constructive dialog could occur, and many Americans could come together and see that there doesn't have to be so much hate between us.

I'm interested in your perspective on this, oleman47.

LapDog

Frazod · 05-09-2001, 05:24 PM

[QUOTE][i]I embody all that is good[/B][/QUOTE]

That's nice. Perhaps we should take up a collection and have you sainted.

But before we start passing the tray around, I would interject that your being a sniping, pompous, self-righteous gasbag does NOT mean you embody anything that is good.

I will give you credit, though - you actually managed to offend Gaz. That took some doing.

keg in kc · 05-09-2001, 05:29 PM

By all means consider me prejudiced for saying it, but I would be more prone to label a dyed-in-the-wool conservative a racist than I would either a moderate like myself or even someone of a more liberal tilt.

I personally believe that racism is no less prevalent in society than it has been in the past, and furthermore believe that the "PC revolution" has resulted in a sort of hidden racism where other labels are applied to people while the feelings within have not changed. When I see someone talking about "those inner city people" and "lazy-*** no good people on welfare with 80 kids" I believe that to be loosely-veiled racism in a time where people are simply too PC to say what they really mean, at least around strangers. Maybe people are trying to convince themselves and others that they're something that they really are not. Maybe things are said behind closed doors that I don't know about. And maybe I'm completely wrong. In the end, I really don't know the answer, and I know some people will take offense to my thinking on the matter.

Racism is a farce anyway. The real barriers in this country are not between black and white. It's all about the greenbacks baby.

oleman47 · 05-09-2001, 05:36 PM

Lapdog!
What a marvelous reply. We all are human, and this was a absolutely great example. By instinct we greet the new or unkown by wariness and forboding from milleniums of conditioning. But this is not what I am talking about.
The conscious, blatant use of the above for political gain and power. It is the wink and nod factor, not the honest give and take of society.

oleman47 · 05-09-2001, 05:41 PM

Keg
Exactly, underneath the rhteroic is the wink and nod, you know what I really mean. I hope this is what you said.
What I see is double entendre. Who me a racist? I am just against lazy bums. Can I help it if they are all black. They sure aren't like me.

**ExtremeChief** · 05-09-2001, 05:43 PM

Oleman,

I'm just curious...I've read your posts over the last few weeks, responded to some of them, and I just can't figure something out.

Why do you feel the need to label everyone??? You use the word "conservative" like some of us use the word "a$$hole". You have no problem calling anyone who disagrees with you a conservative, but seem angered when you are called liberal.

What exactly are you searching for??? I don't see the need to have a label for everyone, and, as a matter of fact, think it's complete BS to use labels anyway.

To call all conservatives racist is utterly intolerable and frankly, offensive. And I don't even consider myself a conservative. As a matter of fact, I tend to lean to the left.

From now on I will remember to skip your posts since all you seem to want to do is start a rediculous argument. That is your right.

I'm not prejudice, I hate everyone the same...

keg in kc · 05-09-2001, 05:53 PM

Oleman, that's similar to what I'm saying, but there's more to it. I am [i]not[/i] saying that all conservatives are racist, but I sincerely believe that a number of right-leaning folks are.

Lapdog, speaking only for myself, I would classify you as being racist. I understand what you are saying, or trying to say, but there is a definite anti-black prejudice underlying everything you said, in my opinion. Which is your right, actually, so long as no actions you take infringe upon the rights of other people. In other words, as far as I'm concerned you can believe what you want, so long as you don't violate the law or the constituation. It's not my place to tell you what to believe or to try to change the course of your own personal history which has developed your persona and your beliefs. Kind of hard to explain what I'm trying to say - in other words you have a right to [i]think[/i] like a racist, because there is no government mandate on personal beliefs...

I may have a unique slant on all of this because I'm a 27 year old white male from rural (and [i]very[/i] racist) West Virginia who is soon to be married to a 25 year old black woman from near Washington DC. I have a great deal of experience with both "white culture" and "black culture" and have an unusual perspective on a lot of things from this personal experience. I actually do agree with some of what you said, especially conserning so-called 'ebonics', but there are a lot of good black people who wouldn't fit your profile as such. And the same can be said for white people. I tend to be wary around obvious white 'rednecks' (since I'm generally with my black future wife...), and, frankly, I just despise anyone driving a minivan, but that's a story for another day.

There is a lot to be discussed here. Racism in white culture. Racism in black culture. Why racism exists. And so forth. I don't really think I can get into everything, and I think that I haven't really explained my own feelings on the matter very well because of that fact...

05-09-2001, 03:44 PM	#2
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Well.......I like boobies, they are nice! :)
Posts: 13,873

05-09-2001, 03:45 PM	#3
Lightning Rod Need a new title Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Prairie Village Casino cash: $10004900	Are there people on this BB that are racist? With the # of people on here, logically one would have to assume so. To assume someone is a racist because they are Conservative, Liberal, Agnostic, Black, White or Christian is simply ignorant. This is the same kind of stereotyping that you are complaining about. If you think a statement by someone is racist in nature, by all means ask that person for an explanation. The constant cries of bigotry, sexism, etc. have become so common that they have lost their impact. To many people crying wolf muddies the waters. __________________ Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there ... I'm gonna eat the first thing that comes out if its butt"? Last edited by Lightning Rod; 05-09-2001 at 03:47 PM..
Posts: 1,151

05-09-2001, 04:23 PM	#4
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	My goodness ole, aren't we the pot calling the kettle black? You just applied a stereotype to an entire group of people - ignorantly labeling them something you do not know them to be. The irony... the hypocrisy...
Posts: 12,355

05-09-2001, 04:37 PM	#5
oleman47 Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10004900	I am profiling. I am stereotyping. I am pointing to what I consider the bedrock of the new conservaticism. It is based mostly on personal interaction with conservatives. My world has been almost all conservative. Stocks, Repubs, suburbs, good life. A white, German, what is there to doubt. What has turned me off is the stupid supply side economics which will kill us and the idea that consumers are the enemy. Then to add to this, is the concept of superiority so evident under facism. You guys may class me as liberal, but for me I embody all that is good, and what the framers were really talking about. I have been were many of you are, I simply out grew it, and also found it to be BS. Last edited by oleman47; 05-09-2001 at 04:44 PM..
Posts: 512

05-09-2001, 04:37 PM	#6
Gaz Defense Homer Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Rancho Gaz Casino cash: $10010793	Pathetic! This is perhaps the most monstrous display of hypocrisy it has ever been my misfortune to read. xoxo~ Gaz Disgusted.
Posts: 5,911

05-09-2001, 03:28 PM
oleman47 Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10004900	I think that the core concept of the new conservaticism is racial profiling. The outgrowth of the successful policy called the "southern strategy" to appeal to racism and stereotypes has worked to an amazing degree. To see the crap on this BBS is sick. This is not a matter of "culturism" this is blatant, core value racism. What is sad is the almost univeral acceptance by those opposed and the proponents.
Posts: 512

05-09-2001, 05:09 PM	#7
oleman47 Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10004900	Gaz When someone called me a socialist pinko, and I retorted he was a facist. You called me out for my remark but nothing about the attacker. You also said that you may not reply to my posts thereafter.
Posts: 512

05-09-2001, 05:18 PM	#8
old_geezer bite me Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Windsor, Mo. Casino cash: $-15262	Have you been hitting the sauce lately oleman? You seem particularly morose today. Don't let the joy of us conservatives get you down. Hope you're feeling better tomorrow. :D __________________ If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death.
Posts: 2,165

05-09-2001, 05:23 PM	#9
LapDog Interloper Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: KC Northland Casino cash: $10004900	oleman47- My earlier agreement with the 'culturism' perspective was based on personal experience. I wasn't trying to say that racism doesn't exist. I just believe that true racism is much rarer than people think it is, especially blacks who feel they are being unfairly treated. They don't know what whites are thinking. They assume it's their skin color. In many cases it's not. Keep in mind, I'm talking about whites who don't remember the 60's, not people who are somewhere around 50 or older. Younger people just haven't been exposed to the racist attitudes to the same degree as the people who actually remember when there were 'black restaurants' and 'white restaurants'. Here's where I got my perspective. This will sound like a cliche, but bear with me for a minute. I am white, my best friend is black. We've known each other for over twenty years. In high school, we hung out together. We went to the mall to check out chicks together. We grew up in the same neighborhood; a totally white, suburban area. There were only a handfull of blacks (3-6) in the entire high school population of 1500 people. Nobody ever gave my friend any ** for being black. Nobody ever gave me any ** for hanging out with him. The reason: he fit right in. To this day, he has never felt that he was on the receiving end of a racist remark or racist behavior. He takes responsibility for himself and his family. He educated himself and has a good job. He speaks proper English and toes the line to get ahead, just like we white people do. For all intents and purposes, he is a product of white culture, but his skin is black. How is it that a black man in his mid-30's can go his entire life without a single racist incident? It is his, and my, firm belief that the reason for this is that he doesn't have anything to do with the 'urban' culture and it's obvious to anyone who meets him that he is a decent, law-abiding citizen who contributes to society. Now let me talk about my own personal perspective. I have nothing but respect and admiration for my black friend. But, I've made borderline comments about black people to him, forgetting that he himself is black. He never takes offense, usually because he agrees with my perspective. If I meet a black man in an office environment who speaks English and acts like the rest of us, I don't think twice about it. I'm aware that he's black when I meet him, but I soon forget the distinction (if there is one) because he comes to work, does his job, and goes home like the rest of us. But, if I meet an unshaven black man with a gold tooth, saying "day is" instead of "there are" and "it's one over there" instead of "there's one over there", I react pretty negatively. He fits the stereotype, so I tend not to be fair minded toward him. The black men described above don't fit the stereotype, so I think of them like I do anybody else. In no case do I treat the one who fits the stereotype badly. I do however remain more gaurded in his presence and it will take him longer to gain my trust. Those examples illustrate my point that, for me, some black people are no different than anybody else and other black people fit the stereotype. For the latter, I watch them and guard my exposure, just in case, until they prove to me that they are good people. In other words, it's not their skin color, it's the way they present themselves to me. That determines what I think about them. Now before everybody goes attacking me, look at yourself. I'm honest about who I am. Are you? Furthermore, if I see a white person on Jerry Springer emulating black culture, "talk to the hand", wagging their fingers and shaking their head, I react almost as negatively as I would if it were a black person. It's a slightly different feeling, but it's still very negative. This slight difference tells me that there's some racism in there, but it's minor. The primary reaction is to the cultural communication style. Again, don't attack me for being honest with you and myself. Look in the mirror. This last example is another illustration that it's the culture that I have a problem with. I don't trust that white person on Jerry Springer any more than I would a black person who acted the same way. I grew up with a neighbor who'd have nothing to do with blacks. That neighbor is over 70 now. I think it's different for previous generations, but racism in people under 40 just isn't nearly as powerful or prominent as it was for older people. I realize I'm not everyone. I'm sure there are many whites like me. I'm sure there are some others who are truly racist, because I met one. He was nothing but hate incarnate, and I won't have anything to do with him. Finally, I think many blacks are jumping to conclusions about whites. I'd like to point out that even if a white man is giving a black man a hard time while using racial epithets, that doesn't mean that the white man is judging the black man on skin color. It's more likely that he's judging him based on dress and behavior. Again, it's JMO. I have one final thought on the subject. It's probably inflammatory, but it's not meant to be. I have to say it because I believe in full disclosure. It is my opinion that, comparing blacks to whites, a higher percentage of the black population is racist. Many black people are too busy accusing white people of racial hatred. They seem unwilling to take a step back and look inside themselves. They seem unwilling to step outside themselves and look at the world, and 'racial' incidents, from an objective point of view. I believe if they did, more constructive dialog could occur, and many Americans could come together and see that there doesn't have to be so much hate between us. I'm interested in your perspective on this, oleman47. LapDog
Posts: 177

05-09-2001, 05:24 PM	#10
Frazod WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $1623385	[QUOTE][i]I embody all that is good[/B][/QUOTE] That's nice. Perhaps we should take up a collection and have you sainted. But before we start passing the tray around, I would interject that your being a sniping, pompous, self-righteous gasbag does NOT mean you embody anything that is good. I will give you credit, though - you actually managed to offend Gaz. That took some doing.
Posts: 119,882

05-09-2001, 05:29 PM	#11
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	By all means consider me prejudiced for saying it, but I would be more prone to label a dyed-in-the-wool conservative a racist than I would either a moderate like myself or even someone of a more liberal tilt. I personally believe that racism is no less prevalent in society than it has been in the past, and furthermore believe that the "PC revolution" has resulted in a sort of hidden racism where other labels are applied to people while the feelings within have not changed. When I see someone talking about "those inner city people" and "lazy-*** no good people on welfare with 80 kids" I believe that to be loosely-veiled racism in a time where people are simply too PC to say what they really mean, at least around strangers. Maybe people are trying to convince themselves and others that they're something that they really are not. Maybe things are said behind closed doors that I don't know about. And maybe I'm completely wrong. In the end, I really don't know the answer, and I know some people will take offense to my thinking on the matter. Racism is a farce anyway. The real barriers in this country are not between black and white. It's all about the greenbacks baby.
Posts: 58,682

05-09-2001, 05:36 PM	#12
oleman47 Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10004900	Lapdog! What a marvelous reply. We all are human, and this was a absolutely great example. By instinct we greet the new or unkown by wariness and forboding from milleniums of conditioning. But this is not what I am talking about. The conscious, blatant use of the above for political gain and power. It is the wink and nod factor, not the honest give and take of society.
Posts: 512

05-09-2001, 05:41 PM	#13
oleman47 Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Wichita Casino cash: $10004900	Keg Exactly, underneath the rhteroic is the wink and nod, you know what I really mean. I hope this is what you said. What I see is double entendre. Who me a racist? I am just against lazy bums. Can I help it if they are all black. They sure aren't like me.
Posts: 512

05-09-2001, 05:43 PM	#14
ExtremeChief Poser Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: BFE, MO Casino cash: $9991344	Oleman, I'm just curious...I've read your posts over the last few weeks, responded to some of them, and I just can't figure something out. Why do you feel the need to label everyone??? You use the word "conservative" like some of us use the word "a$$hole". You have no problem calling anyone who disagrees with you a conservative, but seem angered when you are called liberal. What exactly are you searching for??? I don't see the need to have a label for everyone, and, as a matter of fact, think it's complete BS to use labels anyway. To call all conservatives racist is utterly intolerable and frankly, offensive. And I don't even consider myself a conservative. As a matter of fact, I tend to lean to the left. From now on I will remember to skip your posts since all you seem to want to do is start a rediculous argument. That is your right. I'm not prejudice, I hate everyone the same... __________________ When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.
Posts: 2,354

05-09-2001, 05:53 PM	#15
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Oleman, that's similar to what I'm saying, but there's more to it. I am [i]not[/i] saying that all conservatives are racist, but I sincerely believe that a number of right-leaning folks are. Lapdog, speaking only for myself, I would classify you as being racist. I understand what you are saying, or trying to say, but there is a definite anti-black prejudice underlying everything you said, in my opinion. Which is your right, actually, so long as no actions you take infringe upon the rights of other people. In other words, as far as I'm concerned you can believe what you want, so long as you don't violate the law or the constituation. It's not my place to tell you what to believe or to try to change the course of your own personal history which has developed your persona and your beliefs. Kind of hard to explain what I'm trying to say - in other words you have a right to [i]think[/i] like a racist, because there is no government mandate on personal beliefs... I may have a unique slant on all of this because I'm a 27 year old white male from rural (and [i]very[/i] racist) West Virginia who is soon to be married to a 25 year old black woman from near Washington DC. I have a great deal of experience with both "white culture" and "black culture" and have an unusual perspective on a lot of things from this personal experience. I actually do agree with some of what you said, especially conserning so-called 'ebonics', but there are a lot of good black people who wouldn't fit your profile as such. And the same can be said for white people. I tend to be wary around obvious white 'rednecks' (since I'm generally with my black future wife...), and, frankly, I just despise anyone driving a minivan, but that's a story for another day. There is a lot to be discussed here. Racism in white culture. Racism in black culture. Why racism exists. And so forth. I don't really think I can get into everything, and I think that I haven't really explained my own feelings on the matter very well because of that fact...
Posts: 58,682