How many times has the #1 offense in the league not made the playoffs?

[ClevelandChief]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Robinson had a nice run, too, during Denver's glory years. Does that make him a great coordinator, too?

The fact is when Robinson and Gun had the same players, Robinson's D had better stats, and way more turnovers. That is 16 games worth of data, and it is pretty clear from that data that Gun is a worse DC than Greg Robinson, who we all agree sucked.

You let him go on a spending spree, and he improves the D marginally? Well, BFD! Who wouldn't show improvement when two rookies of the year, and an all-Pro CB are signed?

You're right he did have a nice run and Denver and no that doesn't make him a great coordintor, it does however prove my point.

What good is having 70 INT's a season, 3000 fumble recoveries and still be 29th in yards allowed?

And if you look up at the stats I posted the Yards per play only Gun's D's only averaged maybe giving up a little over a yard more per play.

In Denver he had talent, he did well. In KC he didn't have talent, he did Poor.

1995-1998 Gun had talent, he did well. 2004-2005 He didn't have talent, he did poor.

Belichek in Cleveland, Poor. Belichek in N.E. Genius.

It's a pattern, do you see it? When any coach is surrounded by talent they will excel.

Take Guns talent away he's just a good Defensive minded guy with nothing to work with. Take G-Rob's talent away, same thing.

My question to you is how can you blame Gun for the talent or lack thereof, that is on the field?

Because in the end that's what you are doing.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by ClevelandChief

My question to you is how can you blame Gun for the talent or lack thereof, that is on the field?

Because in the end that's what you are doing.

I give Carl his fair share of blame in acquiring these players. I just don't want Robinson or Gun as my D-C, despite past successes. Both seem to require multiple all-Pros to be effective.

I reallly don't think Gregg Williams has all that much to work with in Washington.

How much money did Gun spend in the offseason trying to upgrade? Shouldn't it have gotten us more than the debacles in Dallas and NY? As I said, I do not think the rest of the league will look favorably upon Gun's effort here. I think it has been bad enough that he will never be a DC again. We will see.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by ClevelandChief

You're right he did have a nice run and Denver and no that doesn't make him a great coordintor, it does however prove my point.

What good is having 70 INT's a season, 3000 fumble recoveries and still be 29th in yards allowed?

And if you look up at the stats I posted the Yards per play only Gun's D's only averaged maybe giving up a little over a yard more per play.

In Denver he had talent, he did well. In KC he didn't have talent, he did Poor.

1995-1998 Gun had talent, he did well. 2004-2005 He didn't have talent, he did poor.

Belichek in Cleveland, Poor. Belichek in N.E. Genius.

It's a pattern, do you see it? When any coach is surrounded by talent they will excel.

Take Guns talent away he's just a good Defensive minded guy with nothing to work with. Take G-Rob's talent away, same thing.

My question to you is how can you blame Gun for the talent or lack thereof, that is on the field?

Because in the end that's what you are doing.

Belichick actually had the #1 ranked defense in his 2nd to last year in Cleveland. Then the next year they announced the move to Baltimore and it all fell apart.

And you can blame Gun for the talent on the defense because Carl and DV let him hand pick it. They let him make a list of the players he wanted... and Carl actually went out and got them signed. That's actually quite an accomplishment by Carl, it's not a video game out there, to actually sign all your top FA targets is pretty good.

[Calcountry]

Originally Posted by ClevelandChief

You're right he did have a nice run and Denver and no that doesn't make him a great coordintor, it does however prove my point.

What good is having 70 INT's a season, 3000 fumble recoveries and still be 29th in yards allowed?

And if you look up at the stats I posted the Yards per play only Gun's D's only averaged maybe giving up a little over a yard more per play.

In Denver he had talent, he did well. In KC he didn't have talent, he did Poor.

1995-1998 Gun had talent, he did well. 2004-2005 He didn't have talent, he did poor.

Belichek in Cleveland, Poor. Belichek in N.E. Genius.

It's a pattern, do you see it? When any coach is surrounded by talent they will excel.

Take Guns talent away he's just a good Defensive minded guy with nothing to work with. Take G-Rob's talent away, same thing.

My question to you is how can you blame Gun for the talent or lack thereof, that is on the field?

Because in the end that's what you are doing.

Usinig your logic, how could you blame any coach for their team sucking? The difference between good coaches and bad, are how much they get out of their players.