This not a revamped D, DV has as much to do with it than you care to admit! - Page 3

chiefsfan1963 · 09-17-2006, 11:29 PM

Last time I checked the majority of the players on D were here last year.

Given that DV was not here this past off season, you can't predict which players he would or wouldn't have drafted. Also CP would have had input so Hali probably would have been drafted and potential the other rookies that made the roster as well.

Law would have also been pursued and acquired given our prospects in being a playoff team.

The D was a work in progress and DV was big part of it.

Now that he and AS are gone all their naysayers are coming out claiming the D is great now they are gone. Not fair.

I'm happy the D is finally turned the corner, but don't give all the credit to Herm. Give his DV some credit for leaving some kind of solid base to work from.

Unfortunately, DV and AS left with our O's keys and we can't get it out of the garage.

If DV/AS were still here we would be 2-0 going into our bye week.

hawkchief · 09-18-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Like who?

You'd be hard-pressed to find even ONE person here that likes Carl Peterson.

Some of us are just smart enough to know he's not the root of all evil...

Some of us are smart enought to know that if you are CEO, President and GM of an organization for 17 years that continues to fail, that, by definition, you are the root of the problem and need to be removed.

**Lzen** · 09-18-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

Hey DV frustrated me with his loyalty to some veterans as much as anyone else. I just thought that statement was not factually correct. I also think with Hicks having an injured shoulder Hali would probably be starting this year, but probably some of the other rookies would not be getting the chance they are getting this year.

Your point about Derrick Johnson is correct. But overall, DV didn't like to let rooks play, even if they were better than the vets.

Example:
Hicks would not be starting this year even if he was 100% healthy right now.

If DV were here and even if they also had drafted Hali, Hicks would be starting right now if he was healthy.

**Lzen** · 09-18-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfan1963

Last time I checked the majority of the players on D were here last year.

Given that DV was not here this past off season, you can't predict which players he would or wouldn't have drafted. Also CP would have had input so Hali probably would have been drafted and potential the other rookies that made the roster as well.

Law would have also been pursued and acquired given our prospects in being a playoff team.

The D was a work in progress and DV was big part of it.

Now that he and AS are gone all their naysayers are coming out claiming the D is great now they are gone. Not fair.

I'm happy the D is finally turned the corner, but don't give all the credit to Herm. Give his DV some credit for leaving some kind of solid base to work from.

Unfortunately, DV and AS left with our O's keys and we can't get it out of the garage.

If DV/AS were still here we would be 2-0 going into our bye week.

Chiefnj · 09-18-2006, 08:44 AM

IMO, Gunther needs a defensive minded head coach to help guide him and give him some direction. He wasn't going to get that guidance from DV.

Would the offense have put more points on the board the last two weeks if DV and AS were around, probably. Would the defense has played as well the last two weeks if DV was still around, probably not.

Would the Chiefs be better than 0-2 if DV/AS were still around? I have no idea. Maybe Green stays healthy against Cincy and they win a shutout, but the D would probably come up short in Denver. It doesn't matter, DV and AS are gone. It's all on Herm and Solari now.

**Skip Towne** · 09-18-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

IMO, Gunther needs a defensive minded head coach to help guide him and give him some direction. He wasn't going to get that guidance from DV.

I think you are onto something there. It would explain Gunthers success under Marty, his failure under DV and his apparent rebirth under Herm.

Brock · 09-18-2006, 08:50 AM

A Vermeil defense would have given up 250 yard rushing. A 9-6 loss in Denver is a breath of fresh air, after the rotten egg farts the Chiefs have laid there the past few years.

htismaqe · 09-18-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkchief

Some of us are smart enought to know that if you are CEO, President and GM of an organization for 17 years that continues to fail, that, by definition, you are the root of the problem and need to be removed.

Does the buck stop with Peterson? Nope. There's an owner above him that seems to care more about money than wins. If you want a scapegoat, you can start with Lamar.

That being said, Peterson is a failure. Nobody will dispute that. However, it grows tiresome when Peterson gets blamed for stupid shit right down to the color of socks the players wore...

keg in kc · 09-18-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

Keg, I am pretty sure DJ played last year as rookie every game. Not sure I follow this point.

The fact that he bascially played one rookie in five years proves my point pretty well, I'd say. Vermeil goes for vets over rookies. That's a fact, not open for much dispute.

beer bacon · 09-19-2006, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

IMO, Gunther needs a defensive minded head coach to help guide him and give him some direction. He wasn't going to get that guidance from DV.

Would the offense have put more points on the board the last two weeks if DV and AS were around, probably. Would the defense has played as well the last two weeks if DV was still around, probably not.

Would the Chiefs be better than 0-2 if DV/AS were still around? I have no idea. Maybe Green stays healthy against Cincy and they win a shutout, but the D would probably come up short in Denver. It doesn't matter, DV and AS are gone. It's all on Herm and Solari now.

Unless AS has changed a lot this offseason, Green would have got killed against Cinci after 10 consecutive seven step drop passes.

KC Jones · 09-19-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

I think you are onto something there. It would explain Gunthers success under Marty, his failure under DV and his apparent rebirth under Herm.

I give Gun more credit than that. I believe he's exceptionally good at game planning. I think he needs good talent evaluators and position coaches around him though. I do believe he was hamstrung by inheriting Grob's coaches and personnel decisions.

**Lzen** · 09-19-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Jones

I give Gun more credit than that. I believe he's exceptionally good at game planning. I think he needs good talent evaluators and position coaches around him though. I do believe he was hamstrung by inheriting Grob's coaches and personnel decisions.

Yep. Sounds about right to me.

Sure-Oz · 09-19-2006, 09:21 AM

IF DV were here we'd see Hicks out there all the time, wow he also drafted crappy while he was here, herm is the reason this defense has gotten alot better, he instilled competition and they have improved their game!

Fish · 09-19-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkchief

Some of us are smart enought to know that if you are CEO, President and GM of an organization for 17 years that continues to fail, that, by definition, you are the root of the problem and need to be removed.

That depends on your definition of failure. I'm not defending Carl here, but he's filled the seats and made quite a bit of money for the Chiefs.

To most of us fans, the only measure of success for Carl is winning playoff games, and eventually a SB or three. Obviously, the Hunt's definition of success is hovering just above a losing record and teasing fans with enough wins to keep selling tickets for next year.

But we keep filling Arrowhead, and Carl keeps cashing in on our hope of finally getting over the hump...

Who's the real dummy?

**Fire Me Boy!** · 09-19-2006, 09:42 AM

I haven't read all the other posts, but if you think coaching has nothing to do with it, your and idiot.

While I'm not all down on DV, the fact is, without Herm, Gun would still be using DV's coaches.

Chiefnj · 09-19-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Jones

I give Gun more credit than that. I believe he's exceptionally good at game planning. I think he needs good talent evaluators and position coaches around him though. I do believe he was hamstrung by inheriting Grob's coaches and personnel decisions.

I don't give Gun that much credit. Even back with Marty the defense, although good ,wasn't consistent. Up one year, down the next. From 1 to 11 then 1 to 22 in points against. Then as head coach it was 13th and 19th. I think if was "exceptionally" good at gameplanning there would have been more consistency - especially with the talent he was given.

I agree he was hamstrung by inheriting GRBOS players, but Gun was the guy who said he would change things with his scheme alone. It didn't work. He said he would change things if he had his special players. It didn't work. It wasn't until Herm's arrival and hands on approach that the D has finally shown some real promise.

09-17-2006, 11:29 PM
chiefsfan1963 Veteran Join Date: Oct 2001 Casino cash: $10005060	This not a revamped D, DV has as much to do with it than you care to admit! Last time I checked the majority of the players on D were here last year. Given that DV was not here this past off season, you can't predict which players he would or wouldn't have drafted. Also CP would have had input so Hali probably would have been drafted and potential the other rookies that made the roster as well. Law would have also been pursued and acquired given our prospects in being a playoff team. The D was a work in progress and DV was big part of it. Now that he and AS are gone all their naysayers are coming out claiming the D is great now they are gone. Not fair. I'm happy the D is finally turned the corner, but don't give all the credit to Herm. Give his DV some credit for leaving some kind of solid base to work from. Unfortunately, DV and AS left with our O's keys and we can't get it out of the garage. If DV/AS were still here we would be 2-0 going into our bye week.
Posts: 1,948

09-18-2006, 08:44 AM	#34
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	IMO, Gunther needs a defensive minded head coach to help guide him and give him some direction. He wasn't going to get that guidance from DV. Would the offense have put more points on the board the last two weeks if DV and AS were around, probably. Would the defense has played as well the last two weeks if DV was still around, probably not. Would the Chiefs be better than 0-2 if DV/AS were still around? I have no idea. Maybe Green stays healthy against Cincy and they win a shutout, but the D would probably come up short in Denver. It doesn't matter, DV and AS are gone. It's all on Herm and Solari now. __________________ "I always tell (the assistant coaches), 'Make it simple, 'cause I'm stupid,'" Edwards said. "This ain't computer football." Herm Edwards, 3-20-07 Q: Herm, back on December 25th you were asked if Trent Green was your starter going into next season and you said, ‘yeah, why wouldn’t he be?’ Have you changed your mind on that? EDWARDS: No, I have not.” (1-11-07)
Posts: 6,811

09-18-2006, 08:50 AM	#36
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	A Vermeil defense would have given up 250 yard rushing. A 9-6 loss in Denver is a breath of fresh air, after the rotten egg farts the Chiefs have laid there the past few years.
Posts: 47,314

09-19-2006, 09:42 AM	#44
Fire Me Boy! Cast Iron Jedi Join Date: Nov 2004 Casino cash: $9999900 VARSITY	I haven't read all the other posts, but if you think coaching has nothing to do with it, your and idiot. While I'm not all down on DV, the fact is, without Herm, Gun would still be using DV's coaches.
Posts: 35,253