The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture - Page 3

|Zach| · 01-20-2007, 04:01 PM

I like this move...some of the actions of people at retail stores is disgusting.

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0..._consumers.htm

The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture. Why? Increasing numbers of stores are cracking down on what they call "devil" shoppers -- customers whose buying and returning practices, some legit, may actually cause the store to lose money -- and the stores believe they're better off without them.

Best Buy stores have gotten so fed up with their "devil" shoppers -- a group they say makes up 20 percent of their customer base -- that they're actively trying to eliminate them from their stores. These shoppers (see below for a description of some of their tactics) account for as many as one-fifth of Best Buy's 500 million customer visits each year, and according to Best Buy CEO Brad Anderson, "They can wreak enormous economic havoc."

So now Best Buy is fighting back. They've started training their employees to identify "angel" shoppers -- the ones who buy highly priced items like HDTVs or just-released DVDs without waiting for a markdown -- and cater to them while "blacklisting" the devil shoppers. The staff uses a quick interview of sorts to identify the different types, which they internally call:

* Barrys: High-income men who like action movies and cameras
*Jills: Suburban moms who want to help their families
*Buzzes: Male technology fans who want the latest high-tech gadgets

Other practices Best Buy has put into play include adding a 15 percent restocking fee and selling restocked items over the Internet as opposed to in stores.

But Best Buy is not alone. Some stores will go so far as to remove "bad" customers from their promotions mailing list or put them on long holds if they call stores with too many questions and no intent to buy. And stores like Express, KB Toys, the Sports Authority, Staples and Guess have all adopted a new technology called the Return Exchange to monitor customers' buying habits.

When a purchase is made, the device records the consumer's name, address, age and transaction details and sends it to The Return Exchange's database. The company says the device is meant to stop shoplifters and other fraud-doers, but it doesn't stop there. Each store inputs certain criteria, such as a high number of returns or a dollar amount on returns, after which a customer's return can be denied.

Said retail consultant King Rogers, retail stores lose some $16 billion a year because of fraud. "Consumers are going to find more stores with tighter, more restrictive return policies than they found last year. When you look at the economics of it, $16 billion a year in losses, they have to tighten up," he said.

But others are worried that consumers will get the short end of the deal.

"I'm concerned about the 99 percent of consumers who are not abusing the system," said Edgar Dworsky, founder of ConsumerWorld.org, an Internet public service site. "It's the wrong size, the wrong color, the mother bought clothing for kids who didn't want it."

Already the Federal Trade Commission has been asked to investigate the legality of stores monitoring and denying customers' returns, and Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) proposed legislation to require stores that do limit returns to warn shoppers of the practice.

-Shopper Tactics That Might Send You to the "Blacklist"

The following practices are among the most common and most offensive in the eyes of retailers. If you commonly engage in any of these practices, you may soon find that your next return is denied or your name has been added to a store's "blacklist" of bad customers.

*Buying a product, taking advantage of the product rebate, then returning the product for a refund.
*Buying clothing or another item, wearing it (or using it) once, then returning it (the classic example is the evening gown that's worn with tags on for a night, then returned).
*Buying an item and returning it with the intent of buying it at the reduced "open-box" price
*Buying clothing or another item with the intent of returning it later and re-buying it at a markdown price.
*Buying a product at a discount, such as from the store's selection of "loss leaders," (low-priced products stores lose money on that are designed to attract customers) then reselling it on eBay for a premium price.
*Finding rock-bottom prices on Web sites, then challenging stores to pay up on their lowest price guarantees.
*Taking up an employee's time to ask questions about a significant purchase with the intent to buy it elsewhere.

Most consumers do have good intentions at heart and make returns for legitimate reasons. Retailers are aware of this and wary of portraying a too-tough image to customers. Said Anderson, it's a fine balance to ward of bad customers without turning away the good ones.

"The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers," he says.

**ShortRoundChief** · 01-20-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

You know what I hate? The other day I was walking into applebee's at around closing time and I got the worst service extra. If the guy would have been halfway polite I would have tipped him a 20 spot for my meal alone. Instead he threw is potato soup all over me and was rude. It went all over my tank top. Then they ran out of ketchup. Worst day of my life. Customer service is dead!

should of known better than go into a place right before closing time

memyselfI · 01-20-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

You should have gone to Circuit City to see if they would price match.

Nah, because I'd have to pay sales tax. I hate paying sales tax. Free shipping and no tax are THE way to go.

**Rain Man** · 01-20-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

I don't care how much money you spend. I think it is good policy not to deal with terrorists.

However, if they claim that a suicide bomb is defective and try to return it, I'll bet they're being honest.

**ShortRoundChief** · 01-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

However, if they claim that a suicide bomb is defective and try to return it, I'll bet they're being honest.

**Rain Man** · 01-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Nah, because I'd have to pay sales tax. I hate paying sales tax. Free shipping and no tax are THE way to go.

I think you're supposed to fill out a use tax form for that and then pay your local community. You're going to prison.

memyselfI · 01-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88TG88

thats the way to go

Slickdeals.net is my best friend. I saved a ton of money at Christmas because of that website.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

But even policies should not be set in stone. For instance, Circuit City has a 15% restocking fee on their returns. We purchased a digital camera for Christmas. It was a Polaroid and it was crap. The camera took terrible pictures because something was wrong with the flash. On return, the store did not have the item anymore and wanted to refund me the money at 100% only if I got a CC gift card or purchased something else.

Well the camera was blister packaged and the ONLY way to know it was defective or crap was to OPEN the package. The manager was a complete and total asshole. I explained to him that him keeping my $15.00 was going to cause me to stop shopping there and that he shouldn't treat me that way because over the past year we had spent over $1500 dollars at CC including a computer purchased just weeks before.

He didn't care. I explained to him that I was in the market to purchase a different digital camera, one at least three times as expensive, and that it wouldn't be from CC because of his attitude. He didn't give a shit so I left.

I wrote a letter explaining the situation to their corporate HQs. They refunded me the money. I didn't purchase the camera from them but from Amazon.com for over $130 cheaper than what they were selling it. I don't know if I'll buy from CC ever again because their management was so unprofessional even though their corporate office did correct the problem.

Any company that would fight over $15 with a customer that has spent $1500 in the past year is a company that has a very bad business sense and ultimately is not one I want to do business with.

Yes, and this is an entirely different story. Obviously, you don't like the quality of pictures that are taken, and that is somewhat demonstratable, rather than "I don't want my fucking late fees on my account".

EDIT: He could have also price-matched said camera that you wanted to buy, and along w/ your GC, you wouldn't have lost any money for your return. But his incompetence and dickheadedness is not universal

I will say this: It is your responsibility to be an informed enough customer to realize problems that may arise with your purchase before you buy the item...Reading reviews online is a great way...if you are making impulsive, ignorant purchases, I can't really say I have any sympathy for you:

An example:

my PIL's recently bought a 46" Sony XBR2 LCD TV (paying 3200 bucks for a TV they could have gotten for 2800) unaware that the model had a problem called "Mura effect" that had they spent five minutes researching online, they would have found out about...Furthermore, they could have gotten a better Samsung for 800 dollars less than what they paid....ultimately, if they run into a problem because of their lack of research, I don't have any sympathy for them.

memyselfI · 01-20-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I think you're supposed to fill out a use tax form for that and then pay your local community. You're going to prison.

Gitmo here I come.

memyselfI · 01-20-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

Yes, and this is an entirely different story. Obviously, you don't like the quality of pictures that are taken, and that is somewhat demonstratable, rather than "I don't want my fucking late fees on my account".

I will say this: It is your responsibility to be an informed enough customer to realize problems that may arise with your purchase before you buy the item...Reading reviews online is a great way...if you are making impulsive, ignorant purchases, I can't really say I have any sympathy for you:

I'm a compulsive review shopper. That doesn't keep one from getting the occasional lemon.

Sheesh, the rockin Pany camera I just bought didn't have the 16mb SD card it's supposed to have. I could send it back as 'defective' but I'm not going to bother. Not for a small problem like that for a card I wouldn't use anyway. I've sent Amazon an email and I suspect they'll issue a credit of some sort.

**Rain Man** · 01-20-2007, 05:47 PM

Have you ever been to a restaurant where the service is too good? I was having a business lunch the other day, and we're trying to talk, and every 3.2 minutes one of our three servers would come up and interrupt us to ask how the meal was. I realize that that's a much better problem than bad service, but at some point there needs to be a moment of peace for the diner.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

I'm a compulsive review shopper. That doesn't keep one from getting the occasional lemon.

And stores will give you all your money back if you have proper documentation and can show that your product is a lemon and not a product of "user error" or a desire to return it for beer money.

**Easy 6** · 01-20-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

You walked into a restaurant at closing time? Bad idea. I bet there was a lot more than potato in that potato soup.

Yep, that soup could have been a Tyler Durden special.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-20-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

I'm a compulsive review shopper. That doesn't keep one from getting the occasional lemon.

Sheesh, the rockin Pany camera I just bought didn't have the 16mb SD card it's supposed to have. I could send it back as 'defective' but I'm not going to bother. Not for a small problem like that for a card I wouldn't use anyway. I've sent Amazon an email and I suspect they'll issue a credit of some sort.

This is an apples and oranges comparison....returning defective merchandise does not = returning shit just because you are a petulant customer who needs their eyes stabbed out.

memyselfI · 01-20-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

And stores will give you all your money back if you have proper documentation and can show that your product is a lemon and not a product of "user error" or a desire to return it for beer money.

No they won't. CC didn't care if the product was defective or not. Which, it was. The flash wasn't working properly with three different sets of batteries. Their policy was 'opened return=15% restocking fee.'

The CS I spoke to on the phone agreed that the manager was completely wrong and told me where to send an email to complain. Within a day they wrote back apologizing and offering to credit my account.

**Rain Man** · 01-20-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Gitmo here I come.

As a business owner, I have to fill out a freaking tax form for my office snacks. They don't tax food here, but if I, as a kind and benevolent business owner (just ask DaFace) decide to provide snacks for my staff, I have to pay taxes on it. Why does the City care if a business owner buys food for their employees as opposed to the employees buying it themselves? I bet that 99 percent of companies aren't paying it, but my company was selected for an audit. When I asked why we were audited, they said that the City just went down a local awards list of the fastest-growing firms and audited them. Way to discourage economic growth, Denver.

01-20-2007, 04:01 PM
\|Zach\| For The Glory Of The City Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $3146768	The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture I like this move...some of the actions of people at retail stores is disgusting. http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0..._consumers.htm The age-old saying that "the customer is always right" may soon be put out to pasture. Why? Increasing numbers of stores are cracking down on what they call "devil" shoppers -- customers whose buying and returning practices, some legit, may actually cause the store to lose money -- and the stores believe they're better off without them. Best Buy stores have gotten so fed up with their "devil" shoppers -- a group they say makes up 20 percent of their customer base -- that they're actively trying to eliminate them from their stores. These shoppers (see below for a description of some of their tactics) account for as many as one-fifth of Best Buy's 500 million customer visits each year, and according to Best Buy CEO Brad Anderson, "They can wreak enormous economic havoc." So now Best Buy is fighting back. They've started training their employees to identify "angel" shoppers -- the ones who buy highly priced items like HDTVs or just-released DVDs without waiting for a markdown -- and cater to them while "blacklisting" the devil shoppers. The staff uses a quick interview of sorts to identify the different types, which they internally call: * Barrys: High-income men who like action movies and cameras Jills: Suburban moms who want to help their families Buzzes: Male technology fans who want the latest high-tech gadgets Other practices Best Buy has put into play include adding a 15 percent restocking fee and selling restocked items over the Internet as opposed to in stores. But Best Buy is not alone. Some stores will go so far as to remove "bad" customers from their promotions mailing list or put them on long holds if they call stores with too many questions and no intent to buy. And stores like Express, KB Toys, the Sports Authority, Staples and Guess have all adopted a new technology called the Return Exchange to monitor customers' buying habits. When a purchase is made, the device records the consumer's name, address, age and transaction details and sends it to The Return Exchange's database. The company says the device is meant to stop shoplifters and other fraud-doers, but it doesn't stop there. Each store inputs certain criteria, such as a high number of returns or a dollar amount on returns, after which a customer's return can be denied. Said retail consultant King Rogers, retail stores lose some $16 billion a year because of fraud. "Consumers are going to find more stores with tighter, more restrictive return policies than they found last year. When you look at the economics of it, $16 billion a year in losses, they have to tighten up," he said. But others are worried that consumers will get the short end of the deal. "I'm concerned about the 99 percent of consumers who are not abusing the system," said Edgar Dworsky, founder of ConsumerWorld.org, an Internet public service site. "It's the wrong size, the wrong color, the mother bought clothing for kids who didn't want it." Already the Federal Trade Commission has been asked to investigate the legality of stores monitoring and denying customers' returns, and Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) proposed legislation to require stores that do limit returns to warn shoppers of the practice. -Shopper Tactics That Might Send You to the "Blacklist" The following practices are among the most common and most offensive in the eyes of retailers. If you commonly engage in any of these practices, you may soon find that your next return is denied or your name has been added to a store's "blacklist" of bad customers. Buying a product, taking advantage of the product rebate, then returning the product for a refund. Buying clothing or another item, wearing it (or using it) once, then returning it (the classic example is the evening gown that's worn with tags on for a night, then returned). Buying an item and returning it with the intent of buying it at the reduced "open-box" price Buying clothing or another item with the intent of returning it later and re-buying it at a markdown price. Buying a product at a discount, such as from the store's selection of "loss leaders," (low-priced products stores lose money on that are designed to attract customers) then reselling it on eBay for a premium price. Finding rock-bottom prices on Web sites, then challenging stores to pay up on their lowest price guarantees. *Taking up an employee's time to ask questions about a significant purchase with the intent to buy it elsewhere. Most consumers do have good intentions at heart and make returns for legitimate reasons. Retailers are aware of this and wary of portraying a too-tough image to customers. Said Anderson, it's a fine balance to ward of bad customers without turning away the good ones. "The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers," he says.
Posts: 54,689

01-20-2007, 05:47 PM	#40
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-522449 VARSITY	Have you ever been to a restaurant where the service is too good? I was having a business lunch the other day, and we're trying to talk, and every 3.2 minutes one of our three servers would come up and interrupt us to ask how the meal was. I realize that that's a much better problem than bad service, but at some point there needs to be a moment of peace for the diner. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,310