That's it. I'm freaking done with these idiots.

[Rain Man]

Back in the 1970s, our teams were bad. They lost games. They got soundly beaten by opponents. But you know what? I could live with it. The teams back then at least tried to win.

Now? I love this team. Love it. We've got massive talent on defense. We've got top-notch players on offense. We've got a new quarterback who can win, and we've got a potential superstar at wide receiver and legitimate superstarts at tight end and running back.

And we've got a coach who is biggest freaking idiot this side of Paul Hackett.

The last time I was this mad about a loss was against Indianapolis in 1995, when we lost home field in the playoffs because of the worst game plan, or rather lack of a game plan, in football history. And now we're repeating it on a weekly basis.

It's the fourth quarter. The score is tied. The best quarterback in the game is on the other sideline. And we freaking concede a drive? We don't even TRY to get a first down? We punt the ball to the most productive offense of the decade? Both teams had one opportunity to win the game, and our stupid, idiotic, moronic, imbecilic coaching staff VOLUNTARILY GAVE OUR CHANCE AWAY! THEY SAID, "WE DON'T WANT TO TRY TO SCORE, SO LET'S PLAY FOR A TIE AND PUNT IT PEYTON FREAKING MANNING." What sort of intellectual plant life would you have to be to do that? They voluntarily reduced our chances of winning to zero, and for no reason.

AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH! I'm so mad about this that I can't stand it. They do this every freaking week. We have perhaps ten chances to score in a game, and they VOLUNTARILY give up on half of them! How does someone do this and keep their job? If I owned that team, that freaking coach-in-name-only would not get on the plane to come home. He would pay his own way back, and I would mail his office stuff to him in a box. I'd give the Arrowhead guards pepper spray and a picture of his unibrowed visage of confusion.

I can't do this any more. Just can't. This was the last straw. This was stupidity at it's finest. This was building the freaking Egyptian pyramids of stupidity. This was stupidity that will stand as a shining example of the art for the next four thousand years. Stupid scholars will study this game plan and write dissertations about it. It was miss-the-$100-question-on-Who- Wants-To-Be-A-Millionaire-after- using-all-of-your-lifelines stupid.

This is a good team. This is a strong team. This team could be very, very good if they were allowed to be. And you know what? Just trade them all. Trade them and stock up draft picks for a possible time when the stupid ownership of this team finally sells it to someone who will fire the stupid Haile Selassie president-for-life general manager and hire someone who will in turn fire the stupid "I think we get points for close losses" coaching staff, and then when those things happen maybe we can use those picks to field a competitive team. Until Herman Edwards is gone, and all photographs of his slackjawed RCA-Victor-Dog-Looking-At-Victrola face have been burned, just pile up picks and use semi-pro players, because the end result will be the same.

If I was Tony Gonzalez or Derrick Johnson or Jared Allen, I would go to Clark Hunt's office with a sleeping bag and I would not leave there until there's a regime change. Don't waste your career playing for piece of garbage idiot like Herm Edwards who can't even fathom trying to win a game.

Three drives! At least three drives where we just intentionally folded up. Didn't even try! "Eh, who cares? Just run for a few yards and punt it. Who cares?" Did these people never watch Joe Montana in the Super Bowl against Cincinnati? Do they not understand that the team with the most points wins? Where is the understanding here, people! Where?!?!?!?!

I HATE YOU, HERMAN EDWARDS! HATE! HATE, HATE, HATE! No, no. It's more than hate! Far more than hate. It's outright despisal!

YOU PLAY...TO WIN...THE GAME! YOU PLAY...TO WIN...THE GAME!

I don't know if I can communicate this any more clearly. This coach has to be removed from power, using any means possible. I'm 44 years old. I don't want to have to concede five more seasons of giving away wins while I wait. He has to go now! NOW! NOW!!!!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Zouk

Pre-Herm 2000 Jets gave up 321 points.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...mstats2000.htm

2001 Jets gave up 295 points.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...mstats2001.htm

Too bad your ability to call names doesn't make you righter. Try harder!

(And according to David Gibbs, DB coach we play Cover 2 on about a third of all snaps - from Soren Petro's podcast about a month ago)

This bud's to you, information minister:

Originally posted by Sperm Edwards
2000 NYJ (Al Groh): 9-7

• Very up & down year, but most concede it was due to poor motivation & the players just flat-out disliking Groh. Pushed them too hard in preseason & they ran out of gas after starting 6-1.
• Also was Testaverde’s return from Achilles tendon injury.
• Among the teams they beat were Miami (11-5) twice, Tampa Bay (10-6) and Green Bay (9-7). They split with the Colts (10-6).
• Missed chip-shot FG vs Detroit at home. If the Jets had beaten Baltimore the following week they would have made the playoffs. This ultimately cost them a trip to the playoffs.
• Opponents’ records were combined 145-111 (.566).
• Four went to the Pro Bowl (Anderson, Glenn, Lewis, Mawae).
• Other notable players included Chad Pennington, John Abraham, Shaun Ellis, Jason Ferguson, Curtis Martin, and Wayne Chrebet.

2001 NYJ (Herm Edwards): 10-6

• Edwards has no prior HC experience in the NFL, college, high school, or Pop-Warner. Edwards has no prior OC experience at any of those levels. Edwards has no prior DC experience at any of those levels. Edwards was never the special teams coach at any of those levels. As such, Edwards was never responsible for coming up with a game plan for a single football game prior to his hiring.
• Takes over a team with a veteran 3-4 defense with cover-corners, hires a DC (Ted Cottrell) whose specialty is the 3-4, & inserts a 4-man front, cover-2 base package that was successful in Tampa Bay (never considering that TB had 4-5 defensive pro-bowlers who made it work).
• Though the offense had an immobile pocket passer who missed the ’99 season with a ruptured Achilles tendon, and short WRs (Chrebet, Coles, Moss), shifted the team to a west-coast offense under Paul Hackett (who had just been fired for running the USC program into the ground after three years. Since his removal from USC, they are the best team in the USA. Prior to that he was fired from the OC position in KC).
• After an 8.5 sack rookie season, decided to move huge DE Shaun Ellis to DT, a colossal flop.
• Started out 1-2 including an unwatchable offensive plodding vs. the 6-10 Colts (down by three touchdowns we were still eating 8+ minutes of clock up on one drive running the ball in the 2nd half).
• Teams beat were NE (11-5) in the game that Lewis knocked Bledsoe out, Miami (11-5) twice, and Oakland (10-6).
• Eked out 1-point victories vs. the Bengals (6-10), Colts (6-10), and Panthers (1-15) and a 6-pt win vs. the 3-13 Bills before losing to those same Bills in a win-and-we’re-in game 15.
• Made the playoffs on a 50-yd FG in Oakland in the last game.
• Opponents’ records were combined 131-125 (.511).
• Lost the WC game in Oakland.
• Four went to the Pro Bowl (Abraham, Glenn, Martin, Mawae).
• Offense was #26 in yards; #17 in pts
• Defense was #17 in yards; #12 in points.

2002 NYJ: 9-7, Division champions

• In an effort to better enable the team to complete the switch to Edwards’ cover-2 base package, salary-cap purges Aaron Glenn & Marcus Coleman were replaced by Aaron Beasley and Donnie Abraham. To better facilitate Ellis’ move to DT, Edwards brought in DE Steve White which led GM Bradway to reach for a speedy DE in the 1st round (Bryan Thomas) to groom behind White. None of the players Edwards knew and/or requested panned out. Only Donnie Abraham proved to be a serviceable starter for 3 years. Since then, Thomas is still 2nd-string; Ellis went back to DE; Beasley (released), Abraham (retired), and White (released) are no longer with the team.
• Team started out 1-4. Their lone win in the first five games resulted from Chad Morton’s kickoff return TD in overtime (his 2nd of the game) vs. the Bills. The following three games, with no injuries to speak of, the Jets were outscored 102-13.
• During that stretch, RB Curtis Martin had two very bad high ankle sprains and did not miss a game. Edwards would not start LaMont Jordan for even one game, or give Jordan as many as 6 carries in any game.
• Game 5 they blew a lead to KC by getting too conservative too early on offense (an Edwards/Hackett trademark for their entire NYJ tenure).
• Game 7 blew a 21-3 lead to the Cleveland Browns & lost 24-21 for the same reason.
• Damien Robinson brought the shotgun to Giants Stadium in the trunk of his car on Oct 14, 2001 (soon after 9/11).
Ellis was moved back to DE and had a sub-par year since he was still carrying the extra weight required for his move to DT.
• Chad Pennington had a magical season and almost single-handedly brought the Jets back from the dead, throwing 22 TD’s to 6 INT’s and going 8-4 in his regular season starts (including the two blown games when the Jets stopped passing way too early).
• With the Jets in control of their own destiny, lost to the (then) 3-10 Chicago Bears.
• Thanks to an improbable outcome in the last game between Miami/NE, the Jets won a three-way tiebreaker as all three teams ended up 9-7. Jets win the division.
• Beat the 10-6 Colts in impressive fashion 41-0 in the wild card game before getting slaughtered 30-10 by the Raiders in the division playoff game a week later.
• After the game, with his star receiver Laveranues Coles not under contract, Edwards comments to the media that the Jets need to get bigger at WR. Coles departs for Washington after the Jets only tender him at $1.3M.
• >.500 teams beat were Miami (9-7), Denver (9-7), NE (9-7), GB (12-4)
• Pro Bowlers were John Abraham and Kevin Mawae

2003 NYJ: 6-10

• Chad Pennington breaks his left wrist in a pre-season game, where rookie FB BJ Askew was responsible for picking up and missing his assignment on the blitz that got Pennington injured. Inexcusable letting a rookie block for the franchise QB in a meaningless preseason game. Pennington is out until game 7.
• Edwards does not let Testaverde start the last pre-season game to work with the first team offense out of fear that he, too, could get injured.
• Testaverde starts very rusty. The offense is not altered at all to take advantage of Testaverde’s arm strength and minimize his lack of mobility (again). Jets lose the first four games, including an embarrassing display of conservatism vs. the Redskins in Washington to kick off the NFL season.
• After winning two games in a row, and with a 10-pt halftime lead over the Eagles, Edwards follows through with his pre-game announcement that Pennington will relieve Vinny during the game. Pennington comes in, blows the lead, and the Jets lose. They also blow a very winnable game to the 4-12 Giants (who would not win another game after that) the following week.
• Won a surprising victory vs the 12-4 Titans who were clearly not taking us seriously. Only other teams they lost to all season (& post-season) were the Colts & Patriots.
• Prior to a late game against New England, Herm is evidently and suddenly not satisfied with Hackett’s game plan of draw plays. He feels we need to be more vertical in the passing game. We know this because he says as much to beat reporters early enough in the week to allow Belichick/Crennel ample time to prepare. Herm (as usual) follows through with his publicized gameplan & Chad throws 5 interceptions for the first & only time in his career.
• Final game we lose yet another winnable game vs. Miami as Herm has officially completed the exorcism of the Jets demons that had plagued Miami.
• Herm decided that the only RB on the team with breakaway speed (Jordan) will now be relegated to goal-line & short-yardage duty. Never mind that he’s a “RB with power” rather than a “power RB.” This is also announced, so any opponent who sees him come into the game (when it’s not garbage-time) is fully aware that the next play will be a handoff to Jordan (more than half his year’s carries were in 2-3 TE sets). In doing this for the entire season, Jordan still has a higher YPC than the “underrated warrior” RB who has the whole field and all the first-second downs to work with unless it’s garbage time to run out the clock at the end of a half. Though healthy, Jordan finishes the year with 46 carries, only 15 of which came after November 1st & only one carry after December 1st.
• On the year, a staggering 87% of the RB carries (including garbage time) went to Curtis Martin so he could amass 1300 yards. By comparison, Jamal Lewis with over 2000 yards got 81%; Ahman Green with almost 1900 yards at 75%.
• Santana Moss starts the year buried behind Wayne Chrebet and Coles replacement–Curtis Conway. No amount of dropped balls gets Conway out of the starting lineup. Only an injury. Once he was finally given the chance, Moss explodes like we all hoped he would when we traded up to draft him two years earlier. He explodes, for 1100 yards and 10 TDs despite only starting 12 games. Numbers never to be approached again until traded.
• Opponents’ records were combined 135-121 (.527), owing much to playing the 14-2 Patriots twice (otherwise we still only went 6-8 (.428) against opponents with a combined .477 win percentage.
• Missed the playoffs
• Two went to the Pro Bowl (Ellis, Mawae).
• Offense was #23 in yards, #21 in pts
• Defense was #20 in yards, #8 in points. Ted Cottrell is fired in the offseason.

2004 NYJ: 10-6

• Team is given the gift of the easiest schedule to start the season in recent memory and win all five of those games, including the Bengals (in Carson Palmer’s first NFL start); the Chargers (one game removed from the NFL’s worst team and two weeks removed from considering starting rookie Phillip Rivers at QB for the season); the 4-12 Dolphins (with no line, no RBs, and a QB controversy in full swing); the then 0-3 Bills; and the 2-14 49ers. Those teams’ combined record at the time of their games with the Jets was 1-11 (1-16 after the losses to the Jets).
• Despite the outcomes, nearly blew the games against the Bengals, Chargers, Bills, and even let the hapless 49ers get out to a 14-0 lead.
• Week 6 the Jets hold the SB champion Patriots (and owners of the #4 offense in 2004) to only 13 points. Our try-to-keep-it-close-until-the-end offensive scheme nets a paltry 7 points (though the rest of the NFL would average over 16 ppg against the Pats).
• After beating up the pathetic Dolphins, the Jets get embarrassed by the Bills as they give us flashbacks to the Ted Cottrell rush-d’s of the past watching Willis McGahee move the chains on 37 carries. Chad Pennington injures his shoulder in the game.
• With Quincy Carter starting effectively and the OL mauling the vaunted Ravens rush defense, the Jets take commanding control of the game, only to watch Hackett/Edwards needlessly attempt an unnecessary HB option that is intercepted and returned for a TD while the Jets were driving into Ravens territory.
• The same game Edwards is caught on camera having Dick Curl telling him how many timeouts we had & when they were to be used; Pennington coaching Herm to instruct Carter on what to do; the clock-killing debacle where Edwards can’t come up with a single play on his own at the end of regulation that put us in a position to have to choose between a play or a FG even though it wasn’t 4th down; also shots of the Ravens’ booth repeatedly and correctly predicting what play would be called as the 4th quarter wound down. In the post-game press conference, Edwards initially lies about a play being relayed to Carter with adequate time, to shift the blame onto the player, before retracting it upon realizing the replay of the game on NFL network showed the polar opposite.
• After beating the 4-12 Browns, 6-10 Cardinals, and 7-9 Texans, the Jets faced the Steelers and failed to score a touchdown as Jordan is stubbornly kept on the sideline despite Martin’s game-long ineffectiveness. (The average opponent scored 16 points per game against the Steelers; the Jets offense managed 12 total points in two games).
• At 10-4, the Jets needed to win one more game to lock up a playoff spot. They came out totally flat for a 23-7 loss vs. NE (the score doesn’t nearly depict how lopsided it was) before losing to the 7-8 Rams. A Buffalo loss to the Steelers 2nd & 3rd-stringers allows the Jets to advance to the post-season anyway.
• Jets squeak by the Chargers despite almost giving the game back on an unsportsmanlike penalty on what should have been the Chargers’ last play in regulation. Chargers missed an overtime FG and the Jets did not.
• Against Pittsburgh, the Jets failed to score a single offensive touchdown. The defense & special teams keep the Jets in the game and are in a position to win it with a field goal despite just missing one the previous possession. With the clock winding down, the Jets decide to predictably run up the middle twice (and get stuffed both times) before Edwards comes up with his crowning achievement as decision maker. Though at Heinz Field, the worst place to kick a FG in the country, and a weak-legged kicker who just missed from >40 yards, it is decided that a 41-yard FG is to be made into a 43-yard FG by kneeling on the ball (which would have been the longest FG ever made at Heinz Field at the time). Brien misses, Jets go on to lose the game.
• Opponents’ record: 134-122 (.523). Played NE (14-2) twice & Pittsburgh (15-1) & lost all 3 games; the other 13 games, Jets opponents record was 91-117 (.438).
• >.500 teams beat: Chargers (12-4), Bills (9-7), Seattle (9-7); also beat the Chargers in the playoffs.
• Two went to the Pro Bowl (J. Abraham, C. Martin).
• Offense was #12 in yds, #17 in pts
• Defense was #7 in yards, #4 in points.

2005:

• The playoff loss is placed on Brien, who is released after the draft, and Paul Hackett, who “resigned” at the close of the season.
• Strength & conditioning coach John Lott quits b/c Herm won't enforce weight restrictions with fines.
• Jets add Ty Law; lose Kareem MacKenzie, LaMont Jordan, Jason Ferguson, and Anthony Becht; trade Santana Moss for Laveranues Coles.
• To complement new OC Mike Heimerdinger, Edwards hires a few coaches who will be learning on the job just like he did. (Heimerdinger would end up coaching these coaches almost as much as the players for the entire season).
• Chad Pennington, who has a close personal relationship with Edwards, is not placed under any pressure to get his necessary shoulder surgery performed as soon as possible (since the recovery time will be lengthy, and the Jets would be installing a new offense under Mike Heimerdinger). Immediately after the season he goes on vacation for a few weeks before getting his necessary surgery. He is clearly neither fully healed nor game-ready by week 1.
• Division rival New England loses OC Charlie Weis and DC Romeo Crennel
• Jets then start losing players to injury right & left (and Herm has the nerve to act shocked after that softy training camp & then sticking with a system that repeatedly got McNair killed with a GOOD offensive line). Fumbled snaps, players winded, meetings with KC's brass the weekend of the Jets-Chiefs game. The season was over before the injuries. I don't even want to go into detail about last season there was so much wrong with it.[/QUOTE]

[Extra Point]

Herm coached scared. "Obviously," you can't do that. Clark, clean house: Fire Carl, Herm and Dick. The rest can stay.

Dick Curl is the cancer of the coaching staff. If anything, give him a gold watch without any hands, and ask him to collect social security.

[Zouk]

Hamas I don't have time to read the page-long rantings of a message board poster. If you give me a meaningful fact or 2 I can reply - but I can't go through all that.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Zouk

Hamas I don't have time to read the page-long rantings of a message board poster. If you give me a meaningful fact or 2 I can reply - but I can't go through all that.

To sum it up short.

Teams coached by Edwards have typically started most seasons with poor performances, leading to speculation that Edwards does a poor job of preparation in the preseason. With the exception of the 2004 season with the New York Jets, no team coached by Edwards has had a winning record after 6 games played. Additionally, Edwards' record on opening day of the NFL season is 2-5, and his teams have been outscored 186-125 (including 70-20 in the last 3 season openers, all losses) in these games.

For a player who made his name in the NFL on a time management gaffe, Edwards has committed a variety of time management decisions that vary from perplexing to embarrassing. These gaffes have been quite frustrating to the fans of the teams coached by Edwards.

Herm's game plans have often been criticized as too conservative with little or no imagination. A prime example of Edwards' game plans, the lone Chiefs 2007 playoff game was one of the worst offensive performances in recent history.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Zouk

Hamas I don't have time to read the page-long rantings of a message board poster. If you give me a meaningful fact or 2 I can reply - but I can't go through all that.

How's this for a meaningful fact?

We have lost more games than we have won with Herm as coach, just like the Jets did.

[jjjayb]

Originally Posted by Zouk

I must have missed all those teams that held the Colts to 13 (3 of which came off a 10 yard field) in the RCA dome.

And I'm no relation to Herm or anyone else on the staff. Just an evangelizer.

They didn't need to score more than 13 to beat us so what does it matter. We lost. Getting close doesn't make me feel any better. But I'm glad Herm has got this team playing so bad that we feel good about losing close. It's so bad that we are happy to be 4-6 because the rest of our division is so crappy we are only a couple of games out of the hunt. Whatever. My mind hasn't been that warped that I'm happy for close losses and 4-6 records. Quit staring directly at the sun. It has fried your brain.

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

How's this for a meaningful fact?

We have lost more games than we have won with Herm as coach, just like the Jets did.

Unfortunately inevitable after inheriting a terrible D and the oldest O in the league. I think we'll be +.500 by the end of the year, and next year the fun wil really begin.

The Herm Jets record is obviously colored by the fact that in his last year the Jets went 4-12 because everyone got hurt and they had to play 5 QBs. Still better than Mangini with a fully healthy team, though.

[boogblaster]

This team has talent spirit youth and vets .. it doesn't have game-day coaching ...

[jjjayb]

Originally Posted by Zouk

Unfortunately inevitable after inheriting a terrible D and the oldest O in the league. I think we'll be +.500 by the end of the year, and next year the fun wil really begin.

The Herm Jets record is obviously colored by the fact that in his last year the Jets went 4-12 because everyone got hurt and they had to play 5 QBs. Still better than Mangini with a fully healthy team, though.

Is it a surprise they kept getting QB's hurt? He was as predictable then as he is now. Just letting Defenses tee up on his QB's with his predictable offense.

[Nzoner]

Been there and done that 2 years ago

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by jjjayb

Is it a surprise they kept getting QB's hurt? He was as predictable then as he is now. Just letting Defenses tee up on his QB's with his predictable offense.

Are you saying he should call more runs on 3rd and longs so as not to leave the QB exposed?

[StcChief]

most of the above. allowing Solari to call plays is close 2nd.

[jjjayb]

Originally Posted by Zouk

Are you saying he should call more runs on 3rd and longs so as not to leave the QB exposed?

I'm saying quit being so predictable as run run pass punt. If it wasn't always run run pass maybe you wouldn't be in 3rd and long almost every time.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Today is the first time in almost 15 years that I missed an entire game. I saw the last 4 minutes but that doesn't count. Couldn't find it ANYWHERE on the internet. I just assumed you were all melting down and overreacting as usual. Coming from Rain Man, I'll believe it. Hopefully Gochiefs will post the torrent this week and I'll see it yet.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

Hopefully Gochiefs will post the torrent this week and I'll see it yet.

Here's a crappy version someone already posted. It's 600 MB so it looks like crap I imagine.

http://forums.tenyardtorrents.com/viewtopic.php?id=7101