Chiefs Meet With Otah

[KC4EVER]

Chiefs | Team meets with Otah
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:40:13 -0700

Brad Biggs, of the Chicago Sun-Times, reports the Kansas City Chiefs met with University of Pittsburgh OT Jeff Otah Monday, March 24.

I think the chiefs hope they can grab him in the second, wich is considerable since we pick early in most rounds.

[kcchiefsus]

Originally Posted by Brock

Well, some people think this is a deep class of tackles with not that much difference between most of the candidates. And some people don't care about that even if it's true.

Well there is great depth but most of those tackles are going to be gone before the 3rd round is over. IMO the top class of OT's consists of:

Jake Long
Ryan Clady
Jeff Otah
Chris Williams
Sam Baker
Anthony Collins
Gosder Cherilus
Duane Brown
Carl Nicks

Not necessarily in any particular order. After that the talent drops off significantly with guys like Oniel Cousins and John Greco being the next best tackles.

I am not necessarily in favor of taking a guy like Ryan Clady in the first round but I don't get why people say he is so raw. The guy started 3 years at tackle for Boise State, the last 2 at left tackle. Each year he improved his play based on being a first team Freshman All-American in 2005, a second team All-American in 2006, and a first team All-American in 2007. Would I prefer Dorsey or Ellis over Clady? Sure. But would I be upset with Clady in the 1st round? No, not really.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by aturnis

Everyone, arguing w/ Mecca and Brock is a waste of finger strength...both are idiots. Mecca thinks he's an all world analyst, and all of his post are full of condecending tones, when all he really knows about anyone he writes his opinions on is what he's read somewhere else. If he really knew anything, someone would employ him for his opinion. Brock is a BPA or die guy, who would twist any comment you make to support his own argument. Reminds me of the guy who says you hate america because you oppose the war. Stupid logic. Arguing w/ them is just dumb.

Brock, all anyone is saying is that Long and Clady are not "reaches" at the #5 spot. Even if McFadden or Ryan or whoever it is you would like to draft is there, it would still be VERY smart to solidify the MOST IMPORTANT position on ANY football team first. The offensive line IS what hindered the offense so much this year, solidify it and production will go up. Also, Croyle needs a chance, would you like him to go 0-whatever next year, get cut, and go somewhere else and become a good QB? That's what happens when you don't give guys a chance, the Chiefs owe it to themselves to find out what they do or do not have. Not to find out would be dumb.

If Long is gone and we don't want Clady, trading down would be a VERY smart move. We will still get a first round quality player, albeit w/o all the glitz and glam, plus more early choices to help solidify this teams many needs. And you can't say "trading down's not that easy!" like all of your cronies either, if Mcfadden and Ryan are still there, or any other good guys, the possibility is always there, not definate, but the possibility is there just the same. Just like all the possibilities of the guys we all want being there for us to take.

Drafting a stud DT is not a bad idea either, it may instantly improve our defense, which is great. I'd be all for it. Although, our defensive unit does not suck as bad as you and Mecca would like to think. While their not great statistically, they only gave up what, 20 points per game? Not stellar but fairly servicable if you ask me. they gave up the run, gave up the pass, and the occasional long run or pass, but not typically a long run or pass for a TD. I think it's the first time in recent memory bend but don't break has worked in KC. Even if that is just happenstance and not our philosiphy.

If the Chiefs were to hold our opponents to 20 ppg next year, and raise our average from 14ppg, we will win more games, period. Possibly 8-8 or better. That's not a prediction, just a condecending remark aimed at those of you who oh so hate 8-8. Guess what?!?! WE ALL DO, but 8-8 IS, not an opinion, a fact, IS better that 4-12

You do make a good point though...a stud OT will not get us to the superbowl next year. Neither will any player you would like for the Chiefs to take. Just so happens our biggest need, is any teams biggest need, and you don't like it. If the Chiefs take "your guy" whoever that might be, good. Frankies, good. Great!

All I know is, for the first time in a LONG time, I know I will be comfortable w/ a very good portion of our draft. I always hated Vermeils illogical picks (I.E. Kris Wilson or Svitek) and always hated taking important positions in late rounds HOPING they would turn out b/c we would rather spend our early picks on pretty players. Taking linemen in late rounds CAN work out...sometimes. The last 5 or more years though, tell us that is hasn't for the Chiefs.

Herm has impressed me not only w/ his solid picks, but with his involvement, commitment and faith in scouting. Not just getting the prettiest player, but the right player, not the best player, but the best for us. His draft resume looks pretty good for the Chiefs so far, 4 of Herms 7 picks last year played ALOT, and played well. Medlock, we'll chalk up to stupid "loyalty", and Herb Taylor played a little bit and showed promise. What becomes of Michael Allen, I promise we'll see this season. Also, 5 of Herms 7 picks in 2006 have played substantial amounts of time, while I'm sure we'll see Marcus Maxey and Tre' Stalling get their shots in camp to compete for starting jobs, or they will probably make good/decent backups.

BPA is a luxury. Drafting BPA hasn't worked out too well for the year in and year out cellar dwellers has it? Too many costly mistakes made too high, b/c of hype. B/c of BPA a lot of cellar dweller have stayed cellar dwellers. BPA is a strategy I believe works best for teams w/ very few gaping holes in their roster. The attitude is "We don't NEED anyone, we'll just take whomever we like." BPA could result in the Chiefs having two good, highly paid runningbacks, or a good DE who will sit on the sidelines. Who's to say Long or Clady won't be a "star", or for that matter that Dorsey, Ellis, or Ryan will? Noone knows.

Fact is, I'll be happy w/ anything we take, even if it's not what I want. Sorry Brock if any of this came off as too condecending, but hey, at least I'm not Mecca.

____aturnis (wishing he was Mecca)

Actually, there are quite a few decent people here who are in favor of best available player, so don't allow the fact that it is me or mecca in this particular case arguing for it color your thinking about what sort of person holds the opinion. Besides, I'm just arguing on the internet because that's what internet message boards are for. I've spun my opinions about most players out of whole cloth, just like every single other person on this site has. A few "I've seen him play 1000 times" guys aside. I'm not seriously trying to convince anyone of anything.

[doomy3]

The "Best Player Available" theory is kind of funny. I agree with it in principle, I think, but what the Hell does it really mean. It's just funny to hear everyone say "draft the best player available no matter what" when those people probably have very different lists than each other.

[Sure-Oz]

It would be nice if Glenn Dorsey just fell to us, kind've like DJ

[bowener]

how many surgeries has dorsey had?

[Shaid]

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

It would be nice if Glenn Dorsey just fell to us, kind've like DJ

I'm a bit concerned about the injury history. I think he'd be dominant but could potentially only be around for a few years. Not sure if it's worth the risk of a top 5 pick.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by Shaid

I'm a bit concerned about the injury history. I think he'd be dominant but could potentially only be around for a few years. Not sure if it's worth the risk of a top 5 pick.

That's why he's this year's Adrian Peterson, because of his injury history pushing him down the draft boards, but the payoff for taking such a risk could be tremendous

[SBK]

The issue here is the reach or the trade down. When you suck you don't trade down, you take the best players you can get. If anything you trade up. You may trade a 2nd day pick to move up to the bottom of round 1 or 2 and pick a guy that has fallen but you don't think should have.

I think that the difference between a guy like Clady and a guy like Baker isn't as big as the difference between where people want to pick them. Could anyone say Clady at 5 is a better value for the long term core of this team than Baker is in round 2?

What if you could get Baker in round 2, and then with that #5 you get Ellis, Dorsey or Ryan? Now you've improved 2 positions. And that guy you picked with your first is going to be far better than someone playing the same position you could get with your #2.

You'd think this is rocket science.

[Bill S Preston]

I wouldn't think that anybody would have a problem with drafting an offensive lineman if he is the BPA, but a problem arises when people claim that the Chiefs should draft an offensive lineman, even when he isn't the BPA.

[alanm]

Originally Posted by melbar

I've just recently been seeing him drop because of questions about character being re-ignited because he was banned from Nebraskas pro-day for another character issue. Your probably right some team wont care...

It was pretty much ado about nothing. He was ticketed for failing to disperse after a party. But seeing as to how a couple other guys also were ticketed that weekend and another guy got in trouble at a bar Pelini brought the sledgehammer down. Banned players from going to certain bars and the like.

[RedThat]

The way I see it,

There is more to it then the BPA. I think it really boils down to BPA combined with position of need. That's would be my way of drafting.

Would it make any sense if lets say Matt Ryan fell to NE and NE should draft him because he is the BPA at #7? Of course not! That would be stupid.

Let's make this clear, the key to success for any team in the NFL is having effective teams built inside the trenches on both sides of the ball. I know one thing, this Chiefs team lacks foundation. Do they have an offensive line? Nope. 1 good player is on that line in Waters that's it. Failing to draft OL in the top rounds after Roaf and Shields retired is showing.

I do feel more optmistic about the Defensive line. The positive signs I can think of there is that they do have some youth. Allen is a stud, Hali has work to do, but he is not that bad. He has a great motor, and decent passrush skills, he needs to work on his run defense. Tyler and McBride are still unknown at this time and played sparingly last year. Boone surprised me last year. But he is 31. Hopefully Tyler or McBride can pan out?

Regardless though, Chiefs pick at 5, if Jake Long is there, and Dorsey is gone, I'd be happy to take Long. He'd probably be the BPA with position of need at 5. If Dorsey is there, and Jake Long is gone, I'd be happy to take Dorsey. He'd probably be the BPA with position of need at 5. Who knows about Tyler or McBride? If Dorsey and Jake Long are gone, and Ellis is there, maybe Ellis is the best guy for the Chiefs to take? Who knows? But he could be the BPA with position of need at the time at 5?

Either way, Chiefs pick at 5, I say be happy because you're going to have a very good chance to pick a top prospect at 5. But either way, I just hope they don't ignore the foundation of the team. The pick should either be an offensive or defensive lineman no doubt about it.

[kcchiefsus]

Originally Posted by RedBull

The way I see it,

There is more to it then the BPA. I think it really boils down to BPA combined with position of need. That's would be my way of drafting.

Would it make any sense if lets say Matt Ryan fell to NE and NE should draft him because he is the BPA at #7? Of course not! That would be stupid.

Let's make this clear, the key to success for any team in the NFL is having effective teams built inside the trenches on both sides of the ball. I know one thing, this Chiefs team lacks foundation. Do they have an offensive line? Nope. 1 good player is on that line in Waters that's it. Failing to draft OL in the top rounds after Roaf and Shields retired is showing.

I do feel more optmistic about the Defensive line. The positive signs I can think of there is that they do have some youth. Allen is a stud, Hali has work to do, but he is not that bad. He has a great motor, and decent passrush skills, he needs to work on his run defense. Tyler and McBride are still unknown at this time and played sparingly last year. Boone surprised me last year. But he is 31. Hopefully Tyler or McBride can pan out?

Regardless though, Chiefs pick at 5, if Jake Long is there, and Dorsey is gone, I'd be happy to take Long. He'd probably be the BPA with position of need at 5. If Dorsey is there, and Jake Long is gone, I'd be happy to take Dorsey. He'd probably be the BPA with position of need at 5. Who knows about Tyler or McBride? If Dorsey and Jake Long are gone, and Ellis is there, maybe Ellis is the best guy for the Chiefs to take? Who knows? But he could be the BPA with position of need at the time at 5?

Either way, Chiefs pick at 5, I say be happy because you're going to have a very good chance to pick a top prospect at 5. But either way, I just hope they don't ignore the foundation of the team. The pick should either be an offensive or defensive lineman no doubt about it.

We simply don't have enough players on the defensive line though. IMO the only players currently on our roster at DL who will be here opening day are DE's Jared Allen, Tamba Hali, and Turk McBride and DT's Tank Tyler, Alfonso Boone, and Tank Tyler. Besides the obvious lack of depth at both positions, two things come to mind.

1) Our defensive tackles are all nose tackle types. None of them can rush the passer very well from the interior. Even if Tank Tyler develops he will never be a Warren Sapp/Tommie Harris type. He is more along the lines of a Anthony McFarland/Pat Williams type. We need our Warren Sapp/Tommie Harris/Kevin Williams on the interior.

2) Turk McBride is IMO nothing more than a rotational player. He simply does not have what it takes to rush the passer from the outside. If either Allen or Hali go down for an extended period of time our pass rush goes to shit because we simply won't have any reliable backups at DE who can rush the passer.

Any thought that we are fine on the defensive line is absurd.

[dj56dt58]

Originally Posted by kcchiefsus

No team, absolutely NO team takes BPA in rounds 1-7. It just doesn't happen. At some point you have to reach for a need. Should we reach in the 1st round? No. But after that if you have a guy ranked slightly lower but you feel he can be a good player and you believe he won't be there in the next round by all means the team should use a draft pick on that player then.

no shit..I guess everyone 1-5, maybe further, is going to be "reaching" because Mcfadden is supposed to be the best player in the draft

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by kcchiefsus

We simply don't have enough players on the defensive line though. IMO the only players currently on our roster at DL who will be here opening day are DE's Jared Allen, Tamba Hali, and Turk McBride and DT's Tank Tyler, Alfonso Boone, and Tank Tyler. Besides the obvious lack of depth at both positions, two things come to mind.

1) Our defensive tackles are all nose tackle types. None of them can rush the passer very well from the interior. Even if Tank Tyler develops he will never be a Warren Sapp/Tommie Harris type. He is more along the lines of a Anthony McFarland/Pat Williams type. We need our Warren Sapp/Tommie Harris/Kevin Williams on the interior.

2) Turk McBride is IMO nothing more than a rotational player. He simply does not have what it takes to rush the passer from the outside. If either Allen or Hali go down for an extended period of time our pass rush goes to shit because we simply won't have any reliable backups at DE who can rush the passer.

Any thought that we are fine on the defensive line is absurd.

Not resigning Wilkerson upset me a bit, I thought he was good for depth.

Keep in my mind, McBride can also be lined up DE. He is a bit of both DE/DT. Hali can also be lined up at DT or DE. I don't know why they didn't run the option more often of lining him up on the inside to provide more pressure from the inside on passing down situations.

If Tyler can pan out and be a Pat Williams type player, I know thats a bit of a stretch, but that would be great. The teams weakness was stopping the run. Mainly because cover 2 scheme is not designed to stop the run, more a less to defend the pass, and not give up the big play deep. But the line did lack a run stuffing DT.

I wouldn't say this is an all-pro line, but I thought they showed last year they could play. They were plenty of times last year I saw pressure from the line. That's a great sign! The Chiefs were one of the top ranked teams in pass defense last year believe it or not? Allens play last year showed us he has something, hopefully it can continue.

That's why if Dorsey falls, and he is there at 5, I wouldn't complain if we take him? I personally think he is the best player in this draft. despite all the reports on injuries and stuff, this is a guy who started all his games the last 2 seasons at LSU, and even when he got hurt he still played. He brings character, heart, and talent to the table. and can do it all from a defensive standpoint imo.

I think the Defensive line has come a bit of a way over the past years. It's not a dominant line, obviously they lack a force in the middle, but it definately came a ways and improved. Drafting Dorsey would take this line from good to excellent. And when you have a cover 2 defense, an excellent defensive line makes sense.

[alanm]

Originally Posted by doomy3

The "Best Player Available" theory is kind of funny. I agree with it in principle, I think, but what the Hell does it really mean. It's just funny to hear everyone say "draft the best player available no matter what" when those people probably have very different lists than each other.

The BPA fits well for this year because the Chiefs with whomever they pick for any position in whatever rnd will reasonably be in contention for a starting job.