The "Official" Cardinals Discussion Thread.

[BigRedChief]

Figured that if we had one thread to discuss Cardinals "stuff" it would be easier to find. What do you think? Good idea?

[StcChief]

so much for taking 1st 2 games... no CC and Sheets we could very easily get swept home by the BrewCrew

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by smittysbar

What a BS two games it has been.......awww never mind, I don't even want to start

We have to look at the big picture. I was in St. Louis when this season started. The talk radio listeners were talking 100 loss's as a possibility this year. Did anyone one of think we would be 2 games back and have the 3rd best record in the NL at the end of July?

This team is overachieving and TLR has done a great job with what he has to work with.

No need to panic. Perez looks like he's going to be a good closer. He needs to work on the slider and curve in the minors. He can't help us immediately but he will help us for years in the future. We don't need to trade our future to get bullpen help this season.

We have outfielders and Anderson to trade. Those are some valuable pieces to get us a long term solution at SS and bullpen help. But even if we pull the trigger now would we get maximum value for them?

Much like our Chiefs this is a youth movement, a long term solution to getting back to the WS. We need to stay with the plan despite the damn ugly chit we have to put up with along the way.

[BigRedChief]

WAINWRIGHT UPDATE

Cleared to throw off a mound for the first time since his finger popped, Adam Wainwright had a 40-pitch workout in the Cardinals' bullpen Tuesday and said afterward he "optimistically" expects to be back in the rotation within three weeks. Wainwright ruptured a pulley in his right middle finger while throwing a curveball June 7 . He threw fastballs and changeups Tuesday, will do so again Thursday and, if everything goes as scheduled, he'll graduate to curveballs by the weekend.

"It felt like I wanted to feel, it felt natural," Wainwright said. "I've got some joint stiffness that has to break down, but otherwise it's about building my pitch count up.

"Best case?" he said earlier. "Two and a half weeks, maybe."

Wainwright grinned when told that would coincide with the Cardinals' August visit to Wrigley Field. Wainwright will throw at least two more bullpen sessions, pushing his pitch count to 50 the next time and targeting 60 to 70 the next.

[StcChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

We have to look at the big picture. I was in St. Louis when this season started. The talk radio listeners were talking 100 loss's as a possibility this year. Did anyone one of think we would be 2 games back and have the 3rd best record in the NL at the end of July?

This team is overachieving and TLR has done a great job with what he has to work with.

No need to panic. Perez looks like he's going to be a good closer. He needs to work on the slider and curve in the minors. He can't help us immediately but he will help us for years in the future. We don't need to trade our future to get bullpen help this season.

We have outfielders and Anderson to trade. Those are some valuable pieces to get us a long term solution at SS and bullpen help. But even if we pull the trigger now would we get maximum value for them?

Much like our Chiefs this is a youth movement, a long term solution to getting back to the WS. We need to stay with the plan despite the damn ugly chit we have to put up with along the way.

yep we are not 1 piece away.... JM basically said that we have too much talent to evaluate now.... Reading between the lines, Tony ain't getting there this year unless everything gells. Carp/Wainwright .. Izzy finds it.

I think JM is content with finishing just outta playoffss as a worse case.

[Frazod]

This is like a bad Twilight Zone episode, where time stands still. Seems like Wainwright is always three weeks away. fuck I'm sick of this.

[BigRedChief]

Cardinals fans are ready to play "Let’s Make a Deal." Their trade proposals dominated Monday’s live chat here at STLtoday.com.

Monday night’s 6-3, 10-inning loss to the Brewers fueled additional trade chatter. The Cards bullpen has been stretched to its limit and the strain is evident.

This time it was Ryan Franklin’s turn to falter at the end of the game. The day before, Jason Isringhausen failed in a save situation.
At the very least, the Cards must add another left-hander, since neither Ron Villone (4.75 earned-run average) and Randy Flores (4.95 ERA) have been especially sharp.

Veteran Russ Springer and rookie Kyle McClellan has been heroic this season, but they won’t hold up pitching four or five times a week from here on out. Fill-in Kelvin Jimenez has offered some short-term help, but can he keep throwing up zeros?

For the time being, manager Tony La Russa is trying to find strength in numbers. The Cards are carrying 13 pitchers. They had nine pitchers ready in the bullpen Monday night.

(One shudders to think how many pitchers this team will carry come September, when the rosters expand past the current 25-player limit. The team may have to charter a second jet for road trips.)
But general manager John Mozeliak must add some quality to the current quantity.

Here is a look at the candidates:
--George Sherrill, Orioles: Why would Baltimore trade its all-star closer, an emerging veteran making just $980,000 this season? Because many teams are desperately seeking relief help. FoxSports.com reports that the O’s will be receptive to other GMs looking to overspend.
Sherrill would be the absolutely perfect fit for the Cards . . . which is why the O’s will ask the world for him.

Your cyber-correspondent wouldn’t move Colby Rasmus or Kyle McClellan in such a deal, but any other prospect would be in play. If Cards scouts believe Sherrill is legit, then Mozeliak could sign him to a long-term contract make him part of the core for ’09 and beyond.
That said, winning the bidding for this player wouldn’t be easy.

--Eddie Guardado, Rangers: Our Derrick Goold mentioned his name as well in his Cards Notes. Apparently Texas would be willing to move him, especially in return for young hurler Jess Todd. The Rangers like Todd. Of course, any team scouting Todd at Springfield likes him, given his mature pitching approach and fast rise in the minors.
Since Guardado is 900 years old, this deal would not excite me. Todd could reach the big leagues next year and stick for a long, long time. A veteran like Guardado might pitch 15 to 20 times during his Cards career. This would not be a good trade-off.

--Damaso Marte, Pirates: There may be a dozen suitors for this guy, which tells you a lot about the current bidding for relievers. The Beaver County Times suggests the Pirates have interest in Chris Duncan and Anthony Reyes – two Cards who figure to move one way or another before next season.
Cards fans would sign off on that deal, as would your cyber-correspondent. Any team acquiring Marte can exercise the club option on him for $6 million next season, thus keeping him out of free agency. So he is not necessarily just a rental player.
I expect Duncan to become a productive everyday player again, but that opportunity won’t arise in St. Louis unless the Cards trade another core player.

--Huston Street, Athletics: Cards fans got excited over an Internet report that Oakland would move Street and others to get Rasmus. But Street just blew his fifth save opportunity and hasn’t been the most durable reliever in baseball.
"His velocity is there, everything's there," A’s manager Bob Geren assured the San Jose Mercury-News. "He's feeling fine."
The Brewers are scouting the A’s these days, leading experts to believe they are first in line for Street. As we know, Milwaukee has a deep farm system and is "all in" for this season.

--Ron Mahay, Royals: He seems like a great fit for St. Louis, especially since Kansas City could use a heavy hitter like Duncan and/or some of this organization’s pitching depth. But the Kansas City Star notes that the club is disinclined to move him:
"The Royals would be shopping Mahay if, like (Mark) Grudzielanek, he were in line to become a free agent after the season. But Mahay is under contract through next year, and the club isn’t anxious to surrender a veteran lefty who has been their best setup reliever. Jimmy Gobble’s puzzling decline makes it even tougher to trade Mahay barring a can’t-refuse offer."

As you can see, the market is tough. Mozeliak isn’t rushing to make a deal, since he wants to see how much progress Adam Wainwright and Chris Carpenter make before the waivers-free trade deadline.
Putting one of those veterans in the bullpen would make sense, although La Russa also needs them to strengthen the rotation. So the clock ticks on, with sellers trying to hold up the buyers as the deadline nears.

[BigRedChief]

I like the Marte deal the best.

[StcChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I like the Marte deal the best.

Ditto. we talked these last nite... he does seem the logical choice given their interest in
Chris Duncan that nepotism really bugs me and injury or not he shouldn't have been here for months but in minors.

[markk]

The bad part is that St. Louis is going to have to overpay for any of those people. Sherrill if he really is even available, Guardado is so over the hill it wouldn't even be worth it. I think Marte will turn into a bidding war. Street would not exactly be a great compliment to Isringhausen's erratic pitching. Mahay makes the most sense but he's going to be expensive.

I expect they will make a move for someone not on this list, somebody that won't thrill anyone, but relieve some pressure.

[The Rick]

Originally Posted by PGM

Hey if the Cards can't win it this year I'd have no problem with the Brew Crew winning it all...By the way who do you think the Brewers will keep out of Sabathia, Sheets and Fielder? Aren't they all 3 free agents after this year?

I know someone else said it, but I think we have Fielder locked up for the next couple of years. Next year is his first year of salary arbitration though and we certainly aren't going to be able to pay him $670,000 like we are this year. I'm assuming he'll get $10 million easily. Hopefully, we can lock him up long term like we did Braun, but I'm not holding my breath. I can easily see him getting traded at some point.

Both Sheets and Sabathia are free agents. I don't see us keeping Sheets at all. I don't know if we even want to keep him. He's a great pitcher, but he's an injury waiting to happen. I think both parties are ready to go their separate ways.

Everyone says that we're just renting Sabathia this year, but a small part of me thinks we could make it work and sign him. It just depends on if he wants to stay. He does like to hit, so being an NL team, that helps.

Sheets is making $12 million this year, so that will be off our books. Gagne is making $10 million this year and he'll be gone. We have a lot of young, talented starters in Parra, Gallardo, etc., so I can see us dumping Suppan. We're paying him $10 million per year and he really hasn't lived up to it.

I think we could easily pay Sabathia $20 million per year and be a dark horse in the race to sign him.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by markk

The bad part is that St. Louis is going to have to overpay for any of those people. Sherrill if he really is even available, Guardado is so over the hill it wouldn't even be worth it. I think Marte will turn into a bidding war. Street would not exactly be a great compliment to Isringhausen's erratic pitching. Mahay makes the most sense but he's going to be expensive.

I expect they will make a move for someone not on this list, somebody that won't thrill anyone, but relieve some pressure.

Those were my thoughts too...A mediocre reliever would be a closer for us right now...

[VAChief]

Sherrill is the only one I have heard mentioned that I would have any interest in getting. All the other guys are 35 or older (Sherrill I think is 31) so unless they came cheap I wouldn't give up top prospects for Springer/Franklin types we already have.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

LaRussa keeps insisting that we need a bat.

I'm surprised that this cyber dumbass didn't mention John Grabow. Given the fact that the Pirates have no starting pitchers that are currently healthy, they may be desperate enough to part with Marte and Grabow for a package of Reyes, Duncan, and Parisi/Boggs.

I know I'm on record as saying this, but I want to reiterate:

STAND PAT

Wait for Carpenter and Waino to come back, if we are out of it by then, so be it. But if we are within 4-5 games, we've got a very good shot.

I still think they should test Wellemeyer out as the closer, Call up Perez again, DFA Flores, and use Izzy, Franklin, and McClellan in middle relief. Springer has been your best pitcher, make him the set up man or if Perez can actually cut down on his BB's, give him a shot at it, with Villone as the LOOGY. Pineiro and Thompson can be your swing guys.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Oh and Rasmus probably tore a knee ligament tonight.

Awesome.

Where is the suicide smiley?

Rasmus has Grade 1 MCL Sprain, will miss 1 month. No surgery. Will be ready for the Arizona fall league. Will miss the Olympics.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

LaRussa keeps insisting that we need a bat.

I'm surprised that this cyber dumbass didn't mention John Grabow. Given the fact that the Pirates have no starting pitchers that are currently healthy, they may be desperate enough to part with Marte and Grabow for a package of Reyes, Duncan, and Parisi/Boggs.

I know I'm on record as saying this, but I want to reiterate:

STAND PAT

Wait for Carpenter and Waino to come back, if we are out of it by then, so be it. But if we are within 4-5 games, we've got a very good shot.

I still think they should test Wellemeyer out as the closer, Call up Perez again, DFA Flores, and use Izzy, Franklin, and McClellan in middle relief. Springer has been your best pitcher, make him the set up man or if Perez can actually cut down on his BB's, give him a shot at it, with Villone as the LOOGY. Pineiro and Thompson can be your swing guys.

Stand Pat is okay with me too. Anderson and some outfield log jam players are all we have to deal right now that wont hurt us later. Jess Todd could turn out to be a CY Young winner at the rate he's currently going. Why trade him for a reliever? We have a future reliever that everyone is high on. He's just not ready yet for the big show.