Chiefs Gretz:Talking Back

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-23-2008, 04:34 PM

Talking Back

September 23, 2008 - Bob Gretz |

In the last week you the reader have dropped an avalanche of comments on the site about the Chiefs and their 0-3 start.

I wish I could answer each individually, but my goodness, that’s all I would do all day.

But they are all read by me and others. I love opinion, even when I don’t agree. It’s fun to read some of the back and forth, the give and take. As long as it’s kept clean, I will not interfere, even when the comments blast me. Listen, I don’t have all the answers, but like everybody else in the media, I think I do!

A moment of time opened up in the Tuesday morning schedule so I’ve grabbed a few of the comments to address here. They generally reflect a lot of the comments post here or grabbed my attention. Some are here simply to correct the record.

Make sure you know this: keep them coming. This site has become, thanks to you and your comments, one of the most intelligent and passionate forums for Chiefs fan in any media, not just the web. Here goes:

From Rich: “Herm and the coaches are close to losing the locker room or the team in general, if they haven’t already done so. It sure seems that way as I’m not seeing precious little focus or resolve on the part of the players.
If this is the case, does the owner continue to let the death train roll onward to the conclusion of the season, then whack the coaches OR make a move now? Tough choices are around”

Rich: I can assure you of one thing, Herm Edwards and his coaching staff have not lost the locker room. I’m not saying that’s not possible if things continue to spiral downward. But I’m there every day, talking with players and there is no finger pointing, no blaming others for the problems, no whispers about the coach or his staff. As for what Clark Hunt might do, I don’t know. Anybody that tells you they do know is a liar. I know these things about him: he’s not his father, he’s said publicly he’s not as patient as his father and he holds his cards very close to his vest. When a franchise starts down this road to rebuilding, everyone from top to bottom better understand that it’s going to be bumpy. Hunt said before the season he wanted to see improvement over last year. So far, that improvement is not there. But it’s three games of 16. Pulling the chain now would not make any sense. If this trend continues for 13 weeks, then pulling the chain would make all the sense in the world.

From Lee: “I am not one for getting rid of Herm Edwards or even Peterson–although I would not renew his contract in 2009 as his five-year plan is seriously past due. I believe the current problems are more related to the inexperience and talent level of the Chiefs team; as hard as this is to watch it is not the time to change the decision makers. I would like to see what changes the Chiefs make as it relates to the problem areas of QB, RG and RT, and LB’s which to me are the most pressing areas. Do they try others on the roster, pick up a free agent, or make a trade? What can they do to get their first win other than playing the Rams?

Lee: Peterson’s contract is not going to be renewed. He announced at the time he signed this deal it would be his final one with the team. As for the five-year plan, that remains the greatest urban myth in the history of the Chiefs. Never once when he came on board back in 1989 did Peterson say anything about having a five-year plan. As for the problems on the field, you nailed them: QB, right side of the offensive line and LBs. They’ve tried everybody at QB so far. They are holding off making moves on the right side of the O-Line in hopes that more playing together will help continuity. At LB they have worked Demorrio Williams in for Donnie Edwards. If there’s any position where they may add players, whether off the street or in a trade, it would be linebacker.

If I were Herm, I would put Herb Taylor at right tackle immediately in place of Damion McIntosh and I would put Wes Dacus on the active roster and beginning working him into the linebacker rotation for Pat Thomas in the middle.

From B in SC: “I understand you point Bob, if you call a trick play and it works - you’re a genius (Dolphins, and if it doesn’t - you’re an idiot - Chiefs). That really isn’t the point however. I don’t think anyone really cares about the trick plays. It’s the normal offense that is the problem. Trick plays are something you work into a game plan to exploit something you see on the other team’s defense. It shouldn’t be inserted to try and get ANY offensive yards. Our coaching staff is so inconsistent with their “youth” movement (why is McIntosh in and Richardson or Tyler out), and we have so many problems with basic blocking, tackling, and catching the ball. Correction of those issues would immediately show improvement.

“If there is to be any success this season, this coaching staff has to make winning a priority. I don’t think it is. Herm has said too many times that they are looking for “progress”. It was evident when they didn’t appear to try and win the Atlanta game by going to a hurry-up offense in the last several minutes. If they don’t emphasize winning, these kids will learn that losing is okay as long as “progress” is being made. That mindset has been in Detroit for decades and they haven’t been able to rid themselves of it with new players or coaches.

“I was happy when the Chiefs hired Herm because I thought he was a great person and seemed to be at least an okay coach. Now I see why the Jets didn’t haggle much over keeping him. He doesn’t really know how to prepare players or game plans. He always looks bewildered on the field and he says way too often “they showed us some things we weren’t anticipating”. Don’t we prepare game plans that (hopefully) the other team isn’t anticipating? That comment always puzzles me.

“Have a good time if you are going to the Denver game, but I’m afraid this will be the ugliest yet. Denver is rolling on offense while our defense is reeling. Not a good combination. IF Tony gets his record, it will be very anti-climactic. Broncos 51-10.”

B in SC: Here’s something I think everyone needs to understand and take it as gospel, whether here in Kansas City, over in St. Louis, in Detroit, in Cleveland, in Cincinnati: winning is always a priority. The incredible amount of time and energy that’s put into a season and then individual games wouldn’t happen if winning wasn’t the most important thing. Reasonable people can always disagree on what’s the right way or best position to put a team in to win a particular game or season. There’s no question the powers in charge of the Chiefs (Peterson-Thum-Kuharich-Edwards, along with Hunt) have taken a big picture view right now: build a strong foundation that will create a team that will be solid and a contender for many years.

Some would translate that as giving up on the 2008 season and not trying to win. That’s just not true. Nobody understands that winning is a habit, just as losing is a habit, more than Edwards. The attention has been on the Atlanta game and the decision to start Thigpen over Damon Huard. Based on what I saw in Atlanta, Huard would not have survived the first quarter. Heck, he may not have survived the first play when Falcons DE John Abraham came steaming in over Damion McIntosh. Edwards truly thought Thigpen was his best opportunity to win, knowing that he would probably play and so he decided to give him the whole week in preparation.

Disagree with his methods and his decisions; those are all fair game. But understand that Herm Edwards wants to win. He knows he must win. He can have all the support right now from Clark Hunt, but if he doesn’t win, he’s going to be out of a job.

Edwards knows that.

FAX · 09-23-2008, 04:45 PM

Now, more than ever, I hope that Gretz is right. Right about Carl not re-upping his deal and right about Herm needing to win in order to keep his job.

Both of those are extremely positive items so far as I'm concerned.

FAX

**The Bad Guy** · 09-23-2008, 05:08 PM

I can't even bring myself to read this shit.

**Rain Man** · 09-23-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I can't even bring myself to read this shit.

I'm wondering when Gretz will admit that the deranged and classless fans were correct about Greg Robinson. But then, I won't ever know since I don't read his drivel any more.

bishop_74 · 09-23-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

As for the five-year plan, that remains the greatest urban myth in the history of the Chiefs. Never once when he came on board back in 1989 did Peterson say anything about having a five-year plan.

I guess I never actually heard him say this on TV or anything. I just assumed it was true.

ElGringo · 09-23-2008, 05:15 PM

I always thought it was Marty who had the "5 year plan" never heard Peterson say it.

FAX · 09-23-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I can't even bring myself to read this shit.

This one isn't so terrible, Mr. The Bad Guy. Kind of uplifting, actually.

Carl is gone when his contract is up and so is Herm if he doesn't start winning. Heck, that's like reporting that Santa is really real and you just won a date with Gillian Anderson for the 500 word essay you submitted to People Magazine on the health benefits of fellatio.

FAX

**The Bad Guy** · 09-23-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishop_74

I guess I never actually heard him say this on TV or anything. I just assumed it was true.

The quote exists. Carl said he had a 5 year plan to get the Super Bowl.

Of course Gretz will refute anything that puts King Carl in a negative light. Gretz is still the one who talks about the 90s like they ****ing matter anymore.

**The Bad Guy** · 09-23-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

This one isn't so terrible, Mr. The Bad Guy. Kind of uplifting, actually.

Carl is gone when his contract is up and so is Herm if he doesn't start winning. Heck, that's like reporting that Santa is really real and you just won a date with Gillian Anderson for the 500 word essay you submitted to People Magazine on the health benefits of fellatio.

FAX

The problem for me is it's 2008 not 2009.

They don't deserve one more year.

FAX · 09-23-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

The problem for me is it's 2008 not 2009.

They don't deserve one more year.

Well, I agree with you there, Mr. The Bad Guy. But, if you did have a date with Gillian Anderson like, say ... next month instead of this month, would you be upset? I don't think so. I think you would be happy. In fact, I think you would be grateful for the extra time to work on your tan and buy a new suit and some shoes and maybe get yourself a haircut and some of those super fancy, colored condoms with the little ridges.

FAX

shaneo69 · 09-23-2008, 05:37 PM

The problem with this is that Peterson himself said in an interview with the Star earlier during the summer that he may come back.

FAX · 09-23-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaneo69

The problem with this is that Peterson himself said in an interview with the Star earlier during the summer that he may come back.

What? What's that you say? Carl said he might be back?

FAX

shaneo69 · 09-23-2008, 05:43 PM

^
Yeah, I'll let someone else find the article and link...

Deberg_1990 · 09-23-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

What? What's that you say? Carl said he might be back?

FAX

Carl has some unfinished business. Hes only in year 20 of the 50 year plan.

T-post Tom · 09-23-2008, 06:35 PM

Good stuff from Gretz. I know he catches a lot of flak, but this was really insightful and informative.

09-23-2008, 04:34 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-2897187	Gretz:Talking Back Talking Back September 23, 2008 - Bob Gretz \| In the last week you the reader have dropped an avalanche of comments on the site about the Chiefs and their 0-3 start. I wish I could answer each individually, but my goodness, that’s all I would do all day. But they are all read by me and others. I love opinion, even when I don’t agree. It’s fun to read some of the back and forth, the give and take. As long as it’s kept clean, I will not interfere, even when the comments blast me. Listen, I don’t have all the answers, but like everybody else in the media, I think I do! A moment of time opened up in the Tuesday morning schedule so I’ve grabbed a few of the comments to address here. They generally reflect a lot of the comments post here or grabbed my attention. Some are here simply to correct the record. Make sure you know this: keep them coming. This site has become, thanks to you and your comments, one of the most intelligent and passionate forums for Chiefs fan in any media, not just the web. Here goes: From Rich: “Herm and the coaches are close to losing the locker room or the team in general, if they haven’t already done so. It sure seems that way as I’m not seeing precious little focus or resolve on the part of the players. If this is the case, does the owner continue to let the death train roll onward to the conclusion of the season, then whack the coaches OR make a move now? Tough choices are around” Rich: I can assure you of one thing, Herm Edwards and his coaching staff have not lost the locker room. I’m not saying that’s not possible if things continue to spiral downward. But I’m there every day, talking with players and there is no finger pointing, no blaming others for the problems, no whispers about the coach or his staff. As for what Clark Hunt might do, I don’t know. Anybody that tells you they do know is a liar. I know these things about him: he’s not his father, he’s said publicly he’s not as patient as his father and he holds his cards very close to his vest. When a franchise starts down this road to rebuilding, everyone from top to bottom better understand that it’s going to be bumpy. Hunt said before the season he wanted to see improvement over last year. So far, that improvement is not there. But it’s three games of 16. Pulling the chain now would not make any sense. If this trend continues for 13 weeks, then pulling the chain would make all the sense in the world. From Lee: “I am not one for getting rid of Herm Edwards or even Peterson–although I would not renew his contract in 2009 as his five-year plan is seriously past due. I believe the current problems are more related to the inexperience and talent level of the Chiefs team; as hard as this is to watch it is not the time to change the decision makers. I would like to see what changes the Chiefs make as it relates to the problem areas of QB, RG and RT, and LB’s which to me are the most pressing areas. Do they try others on the roster, pick up a free agent, or make a trade? What can they do to get their first win other than playing the Rams? Lee: Peterson’s contract is not going to be renewed. He announced at the time he signed this deal it would be his final one with the team. As for the five-year plan, that remains the greatest urban myth in the history of the Chiefs. Never once when he came on board back in 1989 did Peterson say anything about having a five-year plan. As for the problems on the field, you nailed them: QB, right side of the offensive line and LBs. They’ve tried everybody at QB so far. They are holding off making moves on the right side of the O-Line in hopes that more playing together will help continuity. At LB they have worked Demorrio Williams in for Donnie Edwards. If there’s any position where they may add players, whether off the street or in a trade, it would be linebacker. If I were Herm, I would put Herb Taylor at right tackle immediately in place of Damion McIntosh and I would put Wes Dacus on the active roster and beginning working him into the linebacker rotation for Pat Thomas in the middle. From B in SC: “I understand you point Bob, if you call a trick play and it works - you’re a genius (Dolphins, and if it doesn’t - you’re an idiot - Chiefs). That really isn’t the point however. I don’t think anyone really cares about the trick plays. It’s the normal offense that is the problem. Trick plays are something you work into a game plan to exploit something you see on the other team’s defense. It shouldn’t be inserted to try and get ANY offensive yards. Our coaching staff is so inconsistent with their “youth” movement (why is McIntosh in and Richardson or Tyler out), and we have so many problems with basic blocking, tackling, and catching the ball. Correction of those issues would immediately show improvement. “If there is to be any success this season, this coaching staff has to make winning a priority. I don’t think it is. Herm has said too many times that they are looking for “progress”. It was evident when they didn’t appear to try and win the Atlanta game by going to a hurry-up offense in the last several minutes. If they don’t emphasize winning, these kids will learn that losing is okay as long as “progress” is being made. That mindset has been in Detroit for decades and they haven’t been able to rid themselves of it with new players or coaches. “I was happy when the Chiefs hired Herm because I thought he was a great person and seemed to be at least an okay coach. Now I see why the Jets didn’t haggle much over keeping him. He doesn’t really know how to prepare players or game plans. He always looks bewildered on the field and he says way too often “they showed us some things we weren’t anticipating”. Don’t we prepare game plans that (hopefully) the other team isn’t anticipating? That comment always puzzles me. “Have a good time if you are going to the Denver game, but I’m afraid this will be the ugliest yet. Denver is rolling on offense while our defense is reeling. Not a good combination. IF Tony gets his record, it will be very anti-climactic. Broncos 51-10.” B in SC: Here’s something I think everyone needs to understand and take it as gospel, whether here in Kansas City, over in St. Louis, in Detroit, in Cleveland, in Cincinnati: winning is always a priority. The incredible amount of time and energy that’s put into a season and then individual games wouldn’t happen if winning wasn’t the most important thing. Reasonable people can always disagree on what’s the right way or best position to put a team in to win a particular game or season. There’s no question the powers in charge of the Chiefs (Peterson-Thum-Kuharich-Edwards, along with Hunt) have taken a big picture view right now: build a strong foundation that will create a team that will be solid and a contender for many years. Some would translate that as giving up on the 2008 season and not trying to win. That’s just not true. Nobody understands that winning is a habit, just as losing is a habit, more than Edwards. The attention has been on the Atlanta game and the decision to start Thigpen over Damon Huard. Based on what I saw in Atlanta, Huard would not have survived the first quarter. Heck, he may not have survived the first play when Falcons DE John Abraham came steaming in over Damion McIntosh. Edwards truly thought Thigpen was his best opportunity to win, knowing that he would probably play and so he decided to give him the whole week in preparation. Disagree with his methods and his decisions; those are all fair game. But understand that Herm Edwards wants to win. He knows he must win. He can have all the support right now from Clark Hunt, but if he doesn’t win, he’s going to be out of a job. Edwards knows that.
Posts: 43,442

09-23-2008, 04:45 PM	#2
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Now, more than ever, I hope that Gretz is right. Right about Carl not re-upping his deal and right about Herm needing to win in order to keep his job. Both of those are extremely positive items so far as I'm concerned. FAX
Posts: 44,492

09-23-2008, 05:08 PM	#3
The Bad Guy Scott Pioli Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Copacobana Casino cash: $9283645	I can't even bring myself to read this shit. __________________
Posts: 23,216

09-23-2008, 05:15 PM	#6
ElGringo Veteran Join Date: May 2008 Location: Shreveport, La Casino cash: $9975100	I always thought it was Marty who had the "5 year plan" never heard Peterson say it.
Posts: 1,196

09-23-2008, 05:37 PM	#11
shaneo69 Smug Weasel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bleachers at Busch Casino cash: $10004900	The problem with this is that Peterson himself said in an interview with the Star earlier during the summer that he may come back. __________________ "I like Chiefs president Carl Peterson. I respect his business savvy. I envy his management skills and his penchant never to be driven by the whims of popularity. I admire his willingness to take responsibility for decisions that don’t work out the way he would have wanted." - Rufus, from KCChiefs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4,910

09-23-2008, 05:43 PM	#13
shaneo69 Smug Weasel Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Bleachers at Busch Casino cash: $10004900	^ Yeah, I'll let someone else find the article and link... __________________ "I like Chiefs president Carl Peterson. I respect his business savvy. I envy his management skills and his penchant never to be driven by the whims of popularity. I admire his willingness to take responsibility for decisions that don’t work out the way he would have wanted." - Rufus, from KCChiefs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 4,910

09-23-2008, 06:35 PM	#15
T-post Tom Busy in a Kohl's restroom Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milk/Honey/Gazland Casino cash: $1807293	Good stuff from Gretz. I know he catches a lot of flak, but this was really insightful and informative. __________________ You seem nice!
Posts: 22,338