Chiefs Do You Suffer from TFS? True Fan Syndrome? If So, We Can Help - Page 9

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10:48 PM

Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7?

Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth?

Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs?

Do you hate wide receivers?

Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position?

Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14?

Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to?

Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant?

Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks?

Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager?

Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw?

Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense?

Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII?

Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft?

Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much?

Do you believe that the only way to be a winning team is to throw money at the most expensive Free Agents every year, regardless of need?

Do you judge QBOTF by their box scores?

Do you think that risk is scary, and therefore, wish to draft last in every round to avoid the perception of failure?

Do you think that Marty and Bill Cowher are the only two coaches left on the planet?

Do you think that Gunther was once a great coordinator?

Do you think that reaction is safer than action?

Do you think every other team that actually drafted a QBOTF just 'got lucky' and that it could never happen to us?

Is your name [alias of claythan and hootie]?

Do you prefer tailgating to Championships?

Do you fear the unknown?

Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense?

Do you believe that the run sets up the pass?

Do you believe that Stafford "has done nothing worth mentioning" in college?

Do you think QBs don't need to know how to play from under the center, and that learning 5 and 7 step drops is irrelevant because once Thigpen completed a 7 yard pass to a hall of fame tight end in quadruple coverage?

If so, you may suffer from TFS, True Fan Syndrome. Here at the ChiefsPlanet Clinic, our staff of experts can help rid you of this debilitating malady. Through study of game tape of such contests as Super Bowl XXIII we can help ameliorate the effects of play not to lose football.

Upon registering at our world-renowned clinic, you will be given the following ID badge:

After six weeks of therapy, our cure rate for TFS approaches 91%, which ironically, is slightly better than Herm Edwards' losing percentage the last 23 games.

If you or a loved one suffers from TFS, please, contact us immediately.

We're here to help.

Sincerely,

The ChiefsPlanet Clinic

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-17-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

That's a tough question to give a straight, simple answer to. The best way I can put it is: indisputable, superior talent.

Warren Moon is a great example. No one with half a brain would question that he was a great, great player. Contrast him with Green. Here's a player who went to a Pro-Bowl, had some very nice seasons, but was very much a system guy. I'm not knocking system guys; you can win with them, but I'm looking for a higher tier.

In short, this is subjective. Good banter for bars or message boards.

So you're evaluating "franchise" QB's AFTER they've played, not before.

If so, that's gonna skew the data a bit, don't you think?

If we knew who was going to be a franchise QB BEFORE they ever played a down, I doubt you'd be getting much argument from people...

Mecca · 12-17-2008, 10:08 PM

The team has always been run very conservative, I think that's where alot of this come from. No 1st round QB's, resign your own players that had produced before even if it wasn't a good idea, you breed something for so long people just get use to it and then it's the norm.

It was to the point that saying LJ should be moved before he re-signed caused basically everyone but a few people to say we should keep him.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-17-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

So you're evaluating "franchise" QB's AFTER they've played, not before.

If so, that's gonna skew the data a bit, don't you think?

If we knew who was going to be a franchise QB BEFORE they ever played a down, I doubt you'd be getting much argument from people...

A franchise QB is a guy who can lead 4th quarter comebacks in the most dire of situations, when everyone on the D knows he is going to pass, when the D pins its ears back, when the defense is playing uber tight coverage, and he wills them down the field.

Brady did it twice in the Super Bowl. Montana did it. Eli Manning did it. Elway did it. Hell, Jim Kelly did it in a Super Bowl.

It doesn't just have to be a Super Bowl, either. Manning has done it in the playoffs more than once, Steve Young did it against the Packers.

I've never seen a running game lead a 4th quarter comeback in a 2 minute drill.

**DeezNutz** · 12-17-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

So you're evaluating "franchise" QB's AFTER they've played, not before.

If so, that's gonna skew the data a bit, don't you think?

If we knew who was going to be a franchise QB BEFORE they ever played a down, I doubt you'd be getting much argument from people...

Naw, not an evaluation, just an exercise to underscore the importance of the trying to acquire one. A response, if you will, to the True Fan's mandate.

I was thinking about the fans who are afraid of taking a risk to find one, when darn near every single one has led his team to the SB.

Even the current crop tends to suggest this. Roethlisberger, Manning. I wouldn't bet against Cutler. If season one is any indication, I'd put a ton of money on Ryan...

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-17-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

He went to three with Dan Reeves as his HC when the AFC was a joke, and got blown out three times. He went with Shanahan, running a sophisticated offense, and won twice. Look at Elway's numbers pre- and post- Reeves. He's a completely different QB. Is Elway better than Warner -- yeah, but coaching and scheme MATTER, and the combination of Warner and Martz would blow away Elway and Reeves. Not even close.

You're smoking crack.

And that "combination" was beat in the Super Bowl by Tom Brady.

FAIL.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-17-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

A franchise QB is a guy who can lead 4th quarter comebacks in the most dire of situations, when everyone on the D knows he is going to pass, when the D pins its ears back, when the defense is playing uber tight coverage, and he wills them down the field.

Brady did it twice in the Super Bowl. Montana did it. Eli Manning did it. Elway did it. Hell, Jim Kelly did it in a Super Bowl.

It doesn't just have to be a Super Bowl, either. Manning has done it in the playoffs more than once, Steve Young did it against the Packers.

I've never seen a running game lead a 4th quarter comeback in a 2 minute drill.

You're missing the point. And for the record, I'm on your side on this.

The talk is about drafting a QB, and the question was name a franchise QB that didn't make the SB.

Then these guys go on to list QB's that were determined to be franchise guys AFTER they had played, not before.

You don't have that luxury on draft day of knowing who's going to be a franchise guy - you just hope like hell he is because you've just made a huge investment in him.

It's kinda cheating to say that only Fouts and A. Manning were the only two "franchise" QB's to not make the SB.

I'm pretty sure guys like Carr, Ware, Leaf, etc were considered franchise QB's when they were picked...

**the Talking Can** · 12-17-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The team has always been run very conservative, I think that's where alot of this come from. No 1st round QB's, resign your own players that had produced before even if it wasn't a good idea, you breed something for so long people just get use to it and then it's the norm.

It was to the point that saying LJ should be moved before he re-signed caused basically everyone but a few people to say we should keep him.

after 15 years of abject failure, people still think that the only problem was 'execution'....they believe the philosophy behind our actions was sound...

this is what you can't make true fans see: it wasn't a matter of execution, our plan was flawed from its inception...the assumptions about how to build a team WERE WRONG AND THEY HAVE TO CHANGE

you either get it or you don't....and most kc fans don't get it, and never will

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-17-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You're missing the point. And for the record, I'm on your side on this.

The talk is about drafting a QB, and the question was name a franchise QB that didn't make the SB.

Then these guys go on to list QB's that were determined to be franchise guys AFTER they had played, not before.

You don't have that luxury on draft day of knowing who's going to be a franchise guy - you just hope like hell he is because you've just made a huge investment in him.

It's kinda cheating to say that only Fouts and A. Manning were the only two "franchise" QB's to not make the SB.

I'm pretty sure guys like Carr, Ware, Leaf, etc were considered franchise QB's when they were picked...

I get the point, but every player is drafted early to be a "Dominant blind side rusher", a "franchise left tackle", a "shut down corner" an "every down back" or a "#1 receiver".

Every position carries a label with it in the draft.

Basically, the True Fan has eschewed the idea of a franchise QB, the most important position, because they are afraid of the risk of one not working out, as though there aren't Robert Gallerys, Tony Mandariches, Blair Thomases, Charles Rogerses, Ryan Simses, Aundray Bruces, DeAngelo Halls,Michael Huffs and David LaFluers at every position.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-17-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I was thinking about the fans who are afraid of taking a risk to find one, when darn near every single one has led his team to the SB.

That's my point.

You can't cheat and only use guys that were considered franchise guys after the fact.

I'm pretty sure Houston considered David Carr a franchise QB, or they wouldn't have picked him 1st overall.

You're also using guys that were picked in later rounds, and this place is notorious for saying you can't get a franchise QB outside the Top 15.

Again, I agree with you guys, but I think you're going about it the wrong way.

Mecca · 12-17-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

after 15 years of abject failure, people still think that the only problem was 'execution'....they believe the philosophy behind our actions was sound...

this is what you can't make true fans see: it wasn't a matter of execution, our plan was flawed from its inception...the assumptions about how to build a team WERE WRONG AND THEY HAVE TO CHANGE

you either get it or you don't....and most kc fans don't get it, and never will

It didn't help that some of the best players we had played devalued positions so then those positions got overvalued. I don't care how good Gonzalez is you don't build your team around or make your highest paid player your tight end.

TE's, RG's, RB's all devalued positions not to mention the reerun fullback obsession.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-17-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I get the point, but every player is drafted early to be a "Dominant blind side rusher", a "franchise left tackle", a "shut down corner" an "every down back" or a "#1 receiver".

Every position carries a label with it in the draft.

Basically, the True Fan has eschewed the idea of a franchise QB, the most important position, because they are afraid of the risk of one not working out, as though there aren't Robert Gallerys, Tony Mandariches, Blair Thomases, Charles Rogerses, Ryan Simses, Aundray Bruces, DeAngelo Halls,Michael Huffs and David LaFluers at every position.

I'm with you 100%.

My point is that it's disingenuous to say that damn near every franchise QB has made the SB, when it's not even remotely close to being true.

**the Talking Can** · 12-17-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It didn't help that some of the best players we had played devalued positions so then those positions got overvalued. I don't care how good Gonzalez is you don't build your team around or make your highest paid player your tight end.

TE's, RG's, RB's all devalued positions not to mention the reerun fullback obsession.

i love tony to death, but i agree...

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-17-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It didn't help that some of the best players we had played devalued positions so then those positions got overvalued. I don't care how good Gonzalez is you don't build your team around or make your highest paid player your tight end.

TE's, RG's, RB's all devalued positions not to mention the reerun fullback obsession.

Agree 100%

**DeezNutz** · 12-17-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You're missing the point. And for the record, I'm on your side on this.

The talk is about drafting a QB, and the question was name a franchise QB that didn't make the SB.

Then these guys go on to list QB's that were determined to be franchise guys AFTER they had played, not before.

You don't have that luxury on draft day of knowing who's going to be a franchise guy - you just hope like hell he is because you've just made a huge investment in him.

It's kinda cheating to say that only Fouts and A. Manning were the only two "franchise" QB's to not make the SB.

I'm pretty sure guys like Carr, Ware, Leaf, etc were considered franchise QB's when they were picked...

Ok. I got you.

You're right that there have been all sorts of frauds, and there are going to be probably at least 2-3 imposters in the upcoming draft class. We'll have to sit through the bullshit spewed by Kiper, Jaws, and the rest, and many of these "franchise" guys will fail.

My only point is that the risk if worth it, and it's one that this franchise must take. For grins, let's say we are fortunate enough to draft a Stafford, and then let's say he sucks the penis for three straight years (or enough time for it to be clear that he's definitely not the guy, whatever amount that is). No development. No indication that he'll improve. I'm going to be the first to say, let's draft another QB. Let's keep firing.

True fan, b/c his mother clearly swallowed the fraction of the sperm containing his nut sack, is far too scared to try once, let alone to try, fail, and want to try again.

**DeezNutz** · 12-17-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

I'm with you 100%.

My point is that it's disingenuous to say that damn near every franchise QB has made the SB, when it's not even remotely close to being true.

Then those guys weren't franchise QBs.

It's semantics at this point. We're in agreement, I believe. Point is, take the ****ing risk and be willing to deal with the consequences.

12-17-2008, 04:09 PM
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7179572	Do You Suffer from TFS? True Fan Syndrome? If So, We Can Help Do you lie awake at nights dreaming of 8-8, or 9-7? Do you judge a season as a success by a Wild Card birth? Do you believe that defenses and running games are more important than franchise QBs? Do you hate wide receivers? Do you love coaches with a complete inability to spot talent at the running back position? Do you think that 3-13 is better for the long term future of the franchise than 2-14? Do you think the 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens are model NFL teams to aspire to? Do you find playoff records to be irrelevant? Do you believe that guards and right tackles should be taken with top five picks? Do you believe that a quarterback is best served as a game manager? Do you believe that every 3rd Down play should either be a screen or a draw? Do you believe kicker is the most important position on the offense? Do you believe that all of the best prospects reside in the Big XII? Do you believe in trading down in any situation during the draft? Do you believe that a team is better served picking 20 rather than 5 because they don't have to pay the player as much? Do you believe that the only way to be a winning team is to throw money at the most expensive Free Agents every year, regardless of need? Do you judge QBOTF by their box scores? Do you think that risk is scary, and therefore, wish to draft last in every round to avoid the perception of failure? Do you think that Marty and Bill Cowher are the only two coaches left on the planet? Do you think that Gunther was once a great coordinator? Do you think that reaction is safer than action? Do you think every other team that actually drafted a QBOTF just 'got lucky' and that it could never happen to us? Is your name [alias of claythan and hootie]? Do you prefer tailgating to Championships? Do you fear the unknown? Do you believe that 'being close in the 4th quarter' is the objective of an offense? Do you believe that the run sets up the pass? Do you believe that Stafford "has done nothing worth mentioning" in college? Do you think QBs don't need to know how to play from under the center, and that learning 5 and 7 step drops is irrelevant because once Thigpen completed a 7 yard pass to a hall of fame tight end in quadruple coverage? If so, you may suffer from TFS, True Fan Syndrome. Here at the ChiefsPlanet Clinic, our staff of experts can help rid you of this debilitating malady. Through study of game tape of such contests as Super Bowl XXIII we can help ameliorate the effects of play not to lose football. Upon registering at our world-renowned clinic, you will be given the following ID badge: After six weeks of therapy, our cure rate for TFS approaches 91%, which ironically, is slightly better than Herm Edwards' losing percentage the last 23 games. If you or a loved one suffers from TFS, please, contact us immediately. We're here to help. Sincerely, The ChiefsPlanet Clinic Last edited by 'Hamas' Jenkins; 02-15-2010 at 10:48 PM..
Posts: 75,081

12-17-2008, 10:08 PM	#122
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-632950	The team has always been run very conservative, I think that's where alot of this come from. No 1st round QB's, resign your own players that had produced before even if it wasn't a good idea, you breed something for so long people just get use to it and then it's the norm. It was to the point that saying LJ should be moved before he re-signed caused basically everyone but a few people to say we should keep him.
Posts: 115,334