Whitlock: Chiefs’ All-Pro guard Waters wants out of Kansas City

[Tribal Warfare]

Chiefs’ All-Pro guard Waters wants out of Kansas City
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

Chiefs Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters asked the organization Thursday to release or trade him this offseason, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

Waters asked for his release two days after a brief meeting with new head coach Todd Haley and after being told by first-time general manager Scott Pioli that he had no interest in meeting with Waters, the source said.

Waters, according to the source, was offended and shocked by the arrogance of Haley and Pioli. Waters’ meeting with Haley and follow-up phone conversations confirmed in the nine-year vet’s mind that the negative reports about Haley that he heard from Arizona Cardinals players while at the Pro Bowl were accurate, according to the source.

The Cardinals players told Waters and tight end Tony Gonzalez that Haley, Arizona’s offensive coordinator, was aloof, condescending and ignored by veterans, the source said. Anquan Boldin, Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald Jr. — Arizona’s offensive stars — were all members of the NFC Pro Bowl team.

Haley could not be reached for comment Thursday night. Haley bickered with Boldin and Warner during the NFC championship game. And when he was an assistant with the Cowboys, Haley had several run-ins with flamboyant receiver Terrell Owens.

The source said when Waters informed Haley of his desire to relocate, Kansas City’s coach scolded Waters and indicated that the Chiefs would not release Waters from his contract. Waters signed a seven-year contract extension with the Chiefs in 2005. Waters, a four-time Pro Bowler, is 32 and would seemingly have decent trade value.

Waters declined public comment on Thursday.

He is the second high-priced Chiefs offensive star to ask for his release. Running back Larry Johnson has repeatedly asked to be let go. All-pro tight end Tony Gonzalez expressed disappointment when coach Herm Edwards was fired and has stated he will take a wait-and-see approach with the new regime.

Waters’ dissatisfaction is surprising given his reputation as a locker-room leader and his dedication to the organization. Waters is heavily involved in charitable activity in the Kansas City community and was a finalist for the NFL’s 2008 Man of the Year Award.

According to the source, Waters flew to Kansas City specifically to meet with Haley and Pioli and hear their plan for the direction of the organization. Pioli declined to meet with Waters, saying they had nothing to discuss, the source said. And Haley began his hallway conversation with Waters by proclaiming that 22 players off the street could win two games, the source said.

Waters considered his options Wednesday, flew to Dallas and then tried reaching owner Clark Hunt and Pioli before telling Haley on Thursday that he felt their differences were irreconcible, the source said.

Waters joined the Chiefs in 2000 and became a starter in 2001.

[HC_Chief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're kidding, right?

The Chiefs lost games last year. But every single person annd their mother will point out that for a team that was losing games, they still came out every game intense, aggressive, and focused.

They lost because of poor talent. And because of poor second half coaching decisions. They did NOT lose because of character.

There is only so much one man can do when the rest of the team doesn't have any talent. Waters did his job well and he mentored Branden Albert, a guy who also played well. And regardless of who led who, this team had a very good attitude the second half of the season. Waters is a terrific leader. I just don't know what more you would expect him to do.

The Chiefs have character issues. You know the saying about bad apples? LJ is one bad effing apple, and it is rubbing off on supposed "leaders" (see: #88 & #54).

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by CanadaKC

better to be a Curry supporter than a Sanchez blower...

Better to build a Championship Team, than stand around whackin' it to the same tired scene!

Top that, bitch!

[Mark M]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If the allegations are true, there is no way a credible company would act in the same way. For several reasons... #1) if your wife is a leader, then she would be told in advance that something was up--bad companies are the ones who don't communicate the direction to their leaders. So the first question is, why doesn't Waters feel like he's in the loop. #2) Haley's remarks to Waters were like pouring salt into a wound and then shoving your finger into the wound. There is no reason to insult your player like that. Your wife may be told to back off and that they will speak with her later, but a leader would be reeruned to tell your wife that she didn't deserve a voice and then tell her she sucks at her job. If there was any truth to the allegation, the comment Haley made wasn't a slap in the face; it was a punch in the face. And I guarantee that if a manager made that comment to your wife, she would look for another job too.

I realize Waters may have been out of line. We don't know the full story. The Pioli thing could have been handled better, but I agree he has more important things to do and I generally trust him because he's been through this before. The Haley thing is more a concern for me--it's a small flag, if true.

I totally understand from where you're coming, but the "corporate world" analogy (for lack of a better term) falls just a bit short in one key area:

If a leader's job duties include helping to decide the direction of an organization, or if the new leadership asks for input, then fine.

But in this case, it is NOT BW's job to decide -- or even have input on -- the direction of the team. Nor did anyone ask for that input.

Is it BW's job to decide who the team picks up in FA? Is it BW's job to decide who the team should draft? Is it BW's job to decide what offense or defense to run? Or even the play called during games?

No, no, no and no.

If BW wants to share his thoughts, fine. But in no way, shape or form are H&P obligated to listen.

Quite frankly, the fact BW just showed up and expected them to just drop what they're doing and listen to him is absurd. He should have contacted them first and set up a meeting, not just flown up from Dallas, the day before FA and demanded to be heard.

And the fact he's whining like a four-year-old who needs a nap is pathetic and self-centered -- he knew damn well that FA started today, and no one can tell me he either didn't know that, or wasn't trying to use that his advantage.

Add in him crying to Whitlock without doing so on the record (chicken shit move, IMHO) and the respect I used to have for BW is pretty much been blown to bits. Not that he cares, but still ...

MM
~~

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Mark M

I totally understand from where you're coming, but the "corporate world" analogy (for lack of a better term) falls just a bit short in one key area:

If a leader's job duties include helping to decide the direction of an organization, or if the new leadership asks for input, then fine.

But in this case, it is NOT BW's job to decide -- or even have input on -- the direction of the team. Nor did anyone ask for that input.

Is it BW's job to decide who the team picks up in FA? Is it BW's job to decide who the team should draft? Is it BW's job to decide what offense or defense to run? Or even the play called during games?

No, no, no and no.

If BW wants to share his thoughts, fine. But in no way, shape or form are H&P obligated to listen.

Quite frankly, the fact BW just showed up and expected them to just drop what they're doing and listen to him is absurd. He should have contacted them first and set up a meeting, not just flown up from Dallas, the day before FA and demanded to be heard.

And the fact he's whining like a four-year-old who needs a nap is pathetic and self-centered -- he knew damn well that FA started today, and no one can tell me he either didn't know that, or wasn't trying to use that his advantage.

Add in him crying to Whitlock without doing so on the record (chicken shit move, IMHO) and the respect I used to have for BW is pretty much been blown to bits. Not that he cares, but still ...

MM
~~

I do agree with you on that. I don't think Waters needed to do what he did. My objection is that you can tell Waters what you think without making him feel two feet small. I don't understand why Haley would dig into a player like that, I think it was way beyond what he could or should have done, and I think given that this was the one issue where we're still trying to learn about Haley (player relationships), it's something that at least raises a small flag.

[The Bad Guy]

I see Chiefzilla is going full blown reerun again.

The Chiefs also lost games because of ****ing garbage coaching.

Also, why the hell are you putting 100% truth into what Whitlock is saying about what Haley supposedly said?

Wait, I know why, because it helps your argument.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Mark M

I totally understand from where you're coming, but the "corporate world" analogy (for lack of a better term) falls just a bit short in one key area:

If a leader's job duties include helping to decide the direction of an organization, or if the new leadership asks for input, then fine.

But in this case, it is NOT BW's job to decide -- or even have input on -- the direction of the team. Nor did anyone ask for that input.

Is it BW's job to decide who the team picks up in FA? Is it BW's job to decide who the team should draft? Is it BW's job to decide what offense or defense to run? Or even the play called during games?

No, no, no and no.

If BW wants to share his thoughts, fine. But in no way, shape or form are H&P obligated to listen.

Quite frankly, the fact BW just showed up and expected them to just drop what they're doing and listen to him is absurd. He should have contacted them first and set up a meeting, not just flown up from Dallas, the day before FA and demanded to be heard.

And the fact he's whining like a four-year-old who needs a nap is pathetic and self-centered -- he knew damn well that FA started today, and no one can tell me he either didn't know that, or wasn't trying to use that his advantage.

Add in him crying to Whitlock without doing so on the record (chicken shit move, IMHO) and the respect I used to have for BW is pretty much been blown to bits. Not that he cares, but still ...

MM
~~

And by the way, just to clarify for everyone, because I could see how it could get misread.

Waters did NOT go to the media and complain. Whitlock has a "source" that says that Waters left the room and was asking for a trade. He was not whining to the public or antyhing like that. In fact, it says in the article that Waters could not be reached for comment--if he was truly trying to make attention for himself, he would have talked.

We're all making these conclusions about him because of what we heard from a source.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I see Chiefzilla is going full blown reerun again.

The Chiefs also lost games because of ****ing garbage coaching.

Also, why the hell are you putting 100% truth into what Whitlock is saying about what Haley supposedly said?

Wait, I know why, because it helps your argument.

I've said multiple times in this thread that it's "allegedly true." And I mentioned coaching earlier too, which you also apparently missed. And furthermore, that only agrees with my point that it's ridiculous to say that Waters' "poor leadership" was the reason the Chiefs won only 6 games the last 2 seasons, as some people claim. It had to do with the amount of talent and, yes, the coaching too.

I'm not sure why you're saying I've gone reeruned. I agree with everything you just wrote.

[CaliforniaChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And by the way, just to clarify for everyone, because I could see how it could get misread.

Waters did NOT go to the media and complain. Whitlock has a "source" that says that Waters left the room and was asking for a trade. He was not whining to the public or antyhing like that. In fact, it says in the article that Waters could not be reached for comment--if he was truly trying to make attention for himself, he would have talked.

We're all making these conclusions about him because of what we heard from a source.

And guess who that source is? It's not anyone in the organization because they're on lockdown. Probably Waters.

[dallaschiefsfan]

It's a new era and I LOVE it.

I LOVE that the most-favored players who thought they could get a flight to KC and get a visit to see the GM (Carl) on the whim have been set straight.

I LOVE that Arrowhead has been airtight and it's making guys like Fatlock go nuts! Now they have to do some real reporting and work hard for stories. Fatlock might even lose some weight.

I LOVE the fact that Piloli is sticking to his guns and letting his head coach be the front line for the team...even with the players. It's called line of authority...and it's respected in most every profession that succeeds.

I LOVE that we have a coach that calls that mediocre SH** that Herm marched on the field last what it was. This team got soft and Haley knows it.

I LOVE that the old chiefs way is being shot dead and buried and replaced by the new chiefs way.

I HATE the fact that an otherwise classy and excellent KC player has become the example in all this...but Waters only has himself to blame.

[Rain Man]

Uh-oh. The Vrabel thread just passed the Waters thread.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief

And guess who that source is? It's not anyone in the organization because they're on lockdown. Probably Waters.

I highly doubt that Whitlock would cite Waters as a "source" for information Waters himself leaked out. That's unprofessional as a journalist--especially given that Whitlock says later in the article that Waters couldn't be reached for comment.

[Mark M]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I do agree with you on that. I don't think Waters needed to do what he did. My objection is that you can tell Waters what you think without making him feel two feet small. I don't understand why Haley would dig into a player like that, I think it was way beyond what he could or should have done, and I think given that this was the one issue where we're still trying to learn about Haley (player relationships), it's something that at least raises a small flag.

Totally understand. And don't necessarily disagree that a bit of respect is needed both directions.

But until (or, rather, if) more info comes out, I'm guessing that BW said something that led to the alleged crackback (2-14 comment).

Waters did NOT go to the media and complain.

And you know this ... how? Seems like you are speculating along with the rest of us.

Whitlock can say "sources said ... " and "Waters couldn't be reached for comment ... " all he wants. I don't buy it.

No one in that organization is talking about anything to anyone at any time. So I completely and totally refuse to believe that a head coaching search goes on in super-duper-double secrecy with practically zero leaks, while an argument between a player and coach makes the media in less than 48 hours ... unless the coach or player involved is the source.

Sorry, but there's simply no other logical explanation. Waters whined to Whitlock, and Whitlock is covering for him by saying BW couldn't be reached for comment. Happens a lot more in the media than you think.

MM
~~

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by FAX

That KK guy just said that Waters did, indeed, show up unannounced.

FAX

Yep after I was done listening to KK he maybe me see the errors of my thinking which is surprising since KK is usually a dumbass.

So I admit I was wrong and what Haley and Pioli did was right. These guys were 6-26 over the last 2 years and have no right even if they are good to be asking or demanding anything.

[Hammock Parties]

Haley concluded his talk with Waters in the parking lot:

[dallaschiefsfan]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Yep after I was done listening to KK he maybe me see the errors of my thinking which is surprising since KK is usually a dumbass.

So I admit I was wrong and what Haley and Pioli did was right. These guys were 6-26 over the last 2 years and have no right even if they are good to be asking or demanding anything.

THIS