A few Chiefs' draft questions

[chiefzilla1501]

-I just realized that one major mistake people are making is assuming that the Chiefs are going to have a top 5 pick. I think it's very possible that Tampa, St. Louis, Cleveland, and Tennessee could pick higher than us. If that's the case, Berry and Suh are taken off the board. Is Cody a bad pick in this case? I actually think he'd be a great pick if those guys are off the board.
-If the Chiefs end up at #5 or #6, do you entertain a trade down? I think the Chiefs could trade down and still get Mays or Cody. And these two draft slots are attractive enough to trade out of
-If Berry and Suh are off the board, is there a player that teams would actually trade up for? I don't want Bradford at all, but is he a player teams would trade up for? What about Dunlap out of Florida?
-If Jimmy Claussen declares (which I don't think he will), is he worth the pick? My opinion--I would even trade up and take him. I think this kid is going to be the best QB prospect in years.
-If Jake Locker declares, is he worth a look? He looks like he'll be a real good QB, but I can't help but think he's going to be Brady Quinn or maybe a less mobile, slightly more accurate version of Cassel

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I said last year that if the Chiefs were going to go off the reservation with #3 overall, they should take Maclin. He instantly fills three positions on the team, and gives you a great deep threat.

My opinion is that in 2-3 years, Jackson makes a much bigger impact on his team than Maclin. Just an opinion.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

My opinion is that in 2-3 years, Jackson makes a much bigger impact on his team than Maclin. Just an opinion.

Is this an example of a post that you think you're right?

[salame]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

-I just realized that one major mistake people are making is assuming that the Chiefs are going to have a top 5 pick. I think it's very possible that Tampa, St. Louis, Cleveland, and Tennessee could pick higher than us. If that's the case, Berry and Suh are taken off the board. Is Cody a bad pick in this case? I actually think he'd be a great pick if those guys are off the board.
-If the Chiefs end up at #5 or #6, do you entertain a trade down? I think the Chiefs could trade down and still get Mays or Cody. And these two draft slots are attractive enough to trade out of
-If Berry and Suh are off the board, is there a player that teams would actually trade up for? I don't want Bradford at all, but is he a player teams would trade up for? What about Dunlap out of Florida?
-If Jimmy Claussen declares (which I don't think he will), is he worth the pick? My opinion--I would even trade up and take him. I think this kid is going to be the best QB prospect in years.
-If Jake Locker declares, is he worth a look? He looks like he'll be a real good QB, but I can't help but think he's going to be Brady Quinn or maybe a less mobile, slightly more accurate version of Cassel

Dunlap could fall out of the first all together
Mays will never it make it past oakland
Cody won't make it past SF, SD or Miami
Locker sucks, he is the next Brian Brohm

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

Is this an example of a post that you think you're right?

It's a post where I know I'm right.

There's been so much talk about how Dorsey's play this season has made Hali a much better player. If Jackson figures things out, he's going to make the run defense much better and he's going to make whomever is rushing the passer behind him very productive. Right now, Vrabel's getting stonewalled quite a bit because Jackson is very inconsistent, and it's giving him no pass rush lanes to work with.

I would rather stop the run and get sacks than have a deep threat wide receiver.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Don't get me wrong. I think the Chiefs did horrendous in the later rounds. But in terms of the first round, Jackson was one of the only logical options. I don't know if your point is to say that a backup LT or a backup QB would have been more valuable because of future trade value. I can see your point on that. But then you run into the same issues of whether you're overpaying for a backup QB or a backup LT (or, arguably, a guard... if the rationale was to move Albert to Guard).

I'm just arguing against those who say he was a reach or some guy the Chiefs overpaid for. He wasn't a reach when you consider that the main alternatives was in two positions we already had. He is overpaid, but everybody is in a weak draft class.

Well, here's the thing:

I had the Chiefs in the CP mock after the Chiefs drafted Cassel. Given the strength of the board, my lack of confidence in Cassel, and my belief in Sanchez, I took Sanchez with the belief that I could either trade Cassel to a team that wanted him for more than I paid for him (like Denver, as the Cutler trade hadn't happened yet, or Minnesota pre-Favre and Rosenfels).

I was pilloried for it.

I also thought that taking Raji (given the fact that he can play NT) or a guy like Maclin would be far better than Jackson, and I said such. I thought Malcolm Jenkins was an option until his awful 40 time.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Well, here's the thing:

I had the Chiefs in the CP mock after the Chiefs drafted Cassel. Given the strength of the board, my lack of confidence in Cassel, and my belief in Sanchez, I took Sanchez with the belief that I could either trade Cassel to a team that wanted him for more than I paid for him (like Denver, as the Cutler trade hadn't happened yet, or Minnesota pre-Favre and Rosenfels).

I was pilloried for it.

I also thought that taking Raji (given the fact that he can play NT) or a guy like Maclin would be far better than Jackson, and I said such. I thought Malcolm Jenkins was an option until his awful 40 time.

Sanchez was never a lousy option, even as a backup. And the guy I was pushing for was Raji. I don't necessarily think Jackson was the best pick. I just disagree with people who say he was a bad pick. Or claim he was this monumental reach or is overpaid. Given the alternatives the Chiefs had, I don't think either one of those is true.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It's a post where I know I'm right.

There's been so much talk about how Dorsey's play this season has made Hali a much better player. If Jackson figures things out, he's going to make the run defense much better and he's going to make whomever is rushing the passer behind him very productive. Right now, Vrabel's getting stonewalled quite a bit because Jackson is very inconsistent, and it's giving him no pass rush lanes to work with.

I would rather stop the run and get sacks than have a deep threat wide receiver.

All the while ignoring the fact that a reliable deep threat would give DCs 2nd thoughts about stacking the box and open up things underneath in the passing game, creating more opportunities for Bowe to make plays.

And then, of course, he could have an impact in the field position battle with his return abilities.

But a 5 tech DE, who isn't going to be as good as Suh is likley to be, would have a greater impact.

Yeah.

Sure.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Mr. Arrowhead

I rather take that NT from Duke in the 3rd round than have Cody

Vince Oghobaase is a 3-4 end not a NT.

[cdcox]

There is currently a 77% chance we'll have a top 5 pick.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by cdcox

There is currently a 77% chance we'll have a top 5 pick.

You've now destroyed the thread.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

All the while ignoring the fact that a reliable deep threat would give DCs 2nd thoughts about stacking the box and open up things underneath in the passing game, creating more opportunities for Bowe to make plays.

And then, of course, he could have an impact in the field position battle with his return abilities.

But a 5 tech DE, who isn't going to be as good as Suh is likley to be, would have a greater impact.

Yeah.

Sure.

Of course a good player at any position is going to give you more opportunity to do other things. But you can get a premiere punt returner in the later rounds. And you can easily find receivers with explosive 40 times in the second or third round. If you're looking for a guy who can free up Bowe, then you go for an all-around receiver like Crabtree early and you draft a really lightning fast guy in the later rounds or bring one in in free agency--that's your deep threat. Thank god, by the way, they didn't draft Crabtree. Maclin as a pure receiver came in with some major issues and it's no wonder he was taken fairly low in the first round. If we're talking reaches, that's one where we know for sure it was a huge reach because we know exactly where he was drafted. It would have been a 16-spot reach.

The Raiders basically did the same thing by drafting Heyward-Bey because of his deep threat potential and got grilled for it. And rightfully so.

If we're talking about Calvin Johnson or Braylon Edwards, then I see your point. But Crabtree was the only guy in the draft with that kind of positional value, and I am glad the Chiefs didn't take a flyer on him.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Of course a good player at any position is going to give you more opportunity to do other things. But you can get a premiere punt returner in the later rounds. And you can easily find receivers with explosive 40 times in the second or third round. If you're looking for a guy who can free up Bowe, then you go for an all-around receiver like Crabtree early and you draft a really lightning fast guy in the later rounds or bring one in in free agency--that's your deep threat. Thank god, by the way, they didn't draft Crabtree. Maclin as a pure receiver came in with some major issues and it's no wonder he was taken fairly low in the first round. If we're talking reaches, that's one where we know for sure it was a huge reach because we know exactly where he was drafted. It would have been a 16-spot reach.

The Raiders basically did the same thing by drafting Heyward-Bey because of his deep threat potential and got grilled for it. And rightfully so.

If we're talking about Calvin Johnson or Braylon Edwards, then I see your point. But Crabtree was the only guy in the draft with that kind of positional value, and I am glad the Chiefs didn't take a flyer on him.

If you can get a starter at WR who can do the things that you're talking about two or three different players can do for your team, by himself, that gives him more value than some 5 tech DE whose primary job is to tie up blockers.

You can find a guy that will have the same impact over time that jackson will have in the second or third round.

Alex Magee isn't that far behind him in his developoment.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I'd like to see us get Suh, and then sign Ray Lewis, me, Brett Favre, Chris Long, and Terrell Owens as free agents, so with Dorsey we could have Dor, Ray, me, Fahv-re, Suh, Long, T.O.

Bravo RM. Bravo.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

If you can get a starter at WR who can do the things that you're talking about two or three different players can do for your team, by himself, that gives him more value than some 5 tech DE whose primary job is to tie up blockers.

You can find a guy that will have the same impact over time that jackson will have in the second or third round.

Alex Magee isn't that far behind him in his developoment.

Just my opinion. But I think Jackson has potential to be a very good DE while Magee's upside is to be a solid but unspectacular rotational DE. Saying all they do is tie up blockers is selling these guys short. We've seen some of the stuff Dorsey's starting to do. He's tying up blockers, he's doing a great job of swimming past them and attacking too. And this is considering that Jackson, in my opinion, has a much higher upside than Dorsey has as a 3-4 DE.

And again, those receivers who also return punts and kicks aren't hard to find in the very late rounds. At the earliest, you'll see them taken in the late first round, unless you're stupid like the Raiders. You're basically telling me that Maclin's ability to return punts leapfrogs him 15-20 spots on the first round draft board. It's valuable, but not THAT valuable.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Just my opinion. But I think Jackson has potential to be a very good DE while Magee's upside is to be a solid but unspectacular rotational DE. Saying all they do is tie up blockers is selling these guys short. We've seen some of the stuff Dorsey's starting to do. He's tying up blockers, he's doing a great job of swimming past them and attacking too. And this is considering that Jackson, in my opinion, has a much higher upside than Dorsey has as a 3-4 DE.

And again, those receivers who also return punts and kicks aren't hard to find in the very late rounds. At the earliest, you'll see them taken in the late first round, unless you're stupid like the Raiders. You're basically telling me that Maclin's ability to return punts leapfrogs him 15-20 spots on the first round draft board. It's valuable, but not THAT valuable.

My point is that, unless Tyson Jackson is getting 8-9 sacks a year and an absolute monster in run defense, there is no way a 5 tech DE is as impactful as a WR that can open up things in the running game and the short passing game.

Richard Seymour may well be the best 5 tech we've seen, but there's no way he was as valuable as Marvin Harrison was to the Colts.