Chiefs A few Chiefs' draft questions

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

-Glad you think I'm wrong on the value of the 5-technique. After you ignored a very well-written article on the topic
-I made the point that 3-4 defenses rarely get rid of productive 3-4 Defensive linemen. But put a lot less effort into keeping their OLBs and especially their CBS and ILBs. Obviously teams think 5-techniques are valuable. Tell me where I'm wrong there
-So I'm wrong about Crabtree because he had two productive games?
-And to say that Crabtree was a consensus top 5 pick is revisionist history. Like I said, there were a lot more people on this board against Crabtree than for him. But hindsight is 20/20

It's easy to say somebody's wrong when you don't even try to argue the points.

First off, who gives a shit about an article from 2004 written by Michael Smith? He uses Seymour as his basis. Who cares? Did you NOT know what the 5-Tech DE's job is on the field?

Secondly, the CHIEFS are the only team in NFL HISTORY to place such importance on a 3-4, 5-tech.

And lastly, Pioli went off the ****ing reservation to draft TJ and has been panned by ANYONE and EVERYONE with any football knowledge.

People may have questioned taking Crabtree at #3 (or the other guys I mentioned) but there's no denying that he (and the others) are game-changing playmakers.

TJ is NOT.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-01-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

First off, who gives a shit about an article from 2004 written by Michael Smith? He uses Seymour as his basis. Who cares? Did you NOT know what the 5-Tech DE's job is on the field?

Secondly, the CHIEFS are the only team in NFL HISTORY to place such importance on a 3-4, 5-tech.

And lastly, Pioli went off the ****ing reservation to draft TJ and has been panned by ANYONE and EVERYONE with any football knowledge.

People may have questioned taking Crabtree at #3 (or the other guys I mentioned) but there's no denying that he (and the others) are game-changing playmakers.

TJ is NOT.

Take the big 3 (Pitt, NE, Baltimore) in terms of years of experience. In order, the players that are the longest tenured are: Nose Tackles (8 years), Defensive End (7 years), ILB (6 years... 4 years if you subtract out Ray Lewis' 14 years), OLB (5 years), Strong Safety (4 years), Free Safety (3 years), CB (3 years)

If the DE position is so unimportant, then why do these teams continue to re-sign their starters at the position? And by the way, how much do you think the Cowboys miss Jamaal Williams and Olshansky right now? Shawn Merriman isn't jack shit without these guys in front of him.

DE
Brett Keisel - 8
Aaron Smith - 11
Jarvis Green - 8
Ty Warren - 7
Trevor Pryce - 4
Haloti Ngata - 4
Average - 7 years

NT
Casey Hampton - 9
Vince Wilfork - 6
Kelly Gregg - 9
Average - 8 years

OLB
Lamar Woodley - 3
James Harrison - 7
Pierre Woods - 4
Adalius Thomas - 3
Jarrett Johnson - 7
Terrell Suggs - 7
Average: 5 years

ILB
James Farrior - 8
Lawrence Timmons - 3
Jerod Mayo - 2
Eric Alexander - 6
Ray Lewis - 14
Tavares Gooden - 2
Average: 6 years

CB
Ike Taylor - 7
William Gay - 3
Shawn Springs - 1
Leigh Bodden - 1
Dominique Foxworth - 1
Fabian Washington - 2
Average: 2.5 years

Free Safety
Ryan Mundy - 1
Branden McGowan - 1
Ed Reed - 8
Average: 3 years

Strong Safety
Troy Polamalu - 7
Branden Merriweather - 3
Dawan Landry - 4
Average: 4 years

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If the DE position is so unimportant, then why do these teams continue to re-sign their starters at the position? And by the way, how much do you think the Cowboys miss Jamaal Williams and Olshansky right now? Shawn Merriman isn't jack shit without these guys in front of him.

Merriman's coming off of major knee reconstruction. Did you really expect that after one year he'd be exactly the same?

And secondly, whether you know if or not, those guys you mentioned played for the Chargers, not Cowboys.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-01-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Merriman's coming off of major knee reconstruction. Did you really expect that after one year he'd be exactly the same?

And secondly, whether you know if or not, those guys you mentioned played for the Chargers, not Cowboys.

Glad you're more interested in pointing out typos than actually looking at the meat of the argument.

If 5-technique DEs are so unimportant, as you claim, then how come you never, ever, ever hear about a 3-4 defense willing to part ways with a productive DE... unless they felt like they could get better?

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Glad you're more interested in pointing out typos than actually looking at the meat of the argument.

If 5-technique DEs are so unimportant, as you claim, then how come you never, ever, ever hear about a 3-4 defense willing to part ways with a productive DE... unless they felt like they could get better?

Really?

Well, the Cowboys and Chargers are two teams just this offseason that let their 3-4 5-tech's go.

Your claim is invalid.

**Saul Good** · 11-01-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Really?

Well, the Cowboys and Chargers are two teams just this offseason that let their 3-4 5-tech's go.

Your claim is invalid.

How have their defenses done since then?

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saul Good

How have their defenses done since then?

You're obviously missing his point.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-01-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Really?

Well, the Cowboys and Chargers are two teams just this offseason that let their 3-4 5-tech's go.

Your claim is invalid.

These are the two examples you want to use? The 18th and 22nd ranked defenses?

The Chargers got rid of 2 of their Defensive Linemen and their defense looks absolutely horrendous. The Cowboys downgraded from Canty to Olshansky and, oh guess what? Big surprise. Their defensive ranking has dropped from #8 to #22. And oh by the way, that stud OLB... Demarcus Ware? Yeah, he lines up behind Olshansky. And he is on pace for 10 sacks, which is half the number of sacks he has in 2008.

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-01-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

These are the two examples you want to use? The 18th and 22nd ranked defenses?

The Chargers got rid of 2 of their Defensive Linemen and their defense looks absolutely horrendous. The Cowboys downgraded from Canty to Olshansky and, oh guess what? Big surprise. Their defensive ranking has dropped from #8 to #22. And oh by the way, that stud OLB... Demarcus Ware? Yeah, he lines up behind Olshansky. And he is on pace for 10 sacks, which is half the number of sacks he has in 2008.

Hey ****o, you're the one that made claim.

Eat it.

milkman · 11-01-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Glad you're more interested in pointing out typos than actually looking at the meat of the argument.

If 5-technique DEs are so unimportant, as you claim, then how come you never, ever, ever hear about a 3-4 defense willing to part ways with a productive DE... unless they felt like they could get better?

because, in spite of the fact that the 5 tech and NT play in the trenches, their skills don't erode as quickly as the second and third level players in a defense.

Those positions, like RB, rely on quickness and speed, and those qualities don't last.

chiefzilla1501 · 11-01-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

because, in spite of the fact that the 5 tech and NT play in the trenches, their skills don't erode as quickly as the second and third level players in a defense.

Those positions, like RB, rely on quickness and speed, and those qualities don't last.

That's a fair argument. I'm not saying that it's a bulletproof argument. But the claim was that teams find starting 3-4 5-technique DEs to be unimportant, and yet the good teams rarely ever let their starting D-linemen walk away.