Chiefs The myth of Pioli - Page 7

B_Ambuehl · 12-07-2009, 01:12 PM

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
+ Recent Articles

MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

beach tribe · 12-07-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

The Chiefs and Broncos had comparable defenses, though.

One team did something about it. The other team tried, and failed. Miserably.

Don't stick your head in the sand.

Actually he just pwned you.

8-8 does not translate to a 2-14 team. Hell we need 6 new starters to get to 8-8.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-07-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Nobody is saying that.

.

You know that's not true.

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I bet they're not a whole lot more surprised than I am.

What the ****.

You basically believe Pioli and Haley resigned themselves to being a bottom 5 offense and defense before the year?

Do you not realize how ludicrous that sounds?

I think it's ****ing bullshit. Why fire Chan Gailey if you're gonna suck anyway? What would be the point?

Bullshit, keg. Bullshit.

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Actually he just pwned you.

8-8 does not translate to a 2-14 team. Hell we need 6 new starters to get to 8-8.

Forget the overall team record and look at the defenses.

The Chiefs and Broncos needed the SAME overhaul on defense...one team got it done.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-07-2009, 03:08 PM

The Broncos had more talent on D than we did.

The only position we come close to competing with them at is CB.

It's not like Dumerville, Williams, Woodyard, and Bailey weren't there last year, and Dumerville makes that whole D better.

keg in kc · 12-07-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

The Chiefs and Broncos had comparable defenses, though.

One team did something about it. The other team tried, and failed. Miserably.

Don't stick your head in the sand.

Comparable defenses?

Comparable statistically but not in terms of the players on the field. They've had more talent on that side of the ball than we have for years now, they've just consistently underachieved.

Whereas the Chiefs have been about as good as the players they run out there since, oh, about 1998. Fortunately they've begun adding core pieces to build around, pieces which you're of course writing off after their 1st or 2nd years in the league.

keg in kc · 12-07-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

What the ****.

You basically believe Pioli and Haley resigned themselves to being a bottom 5 offense and defense before the year?

If I believed that, I probably would have said it.

But go ahead, keep making stuff up.

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The Broncos had more talent on D than we did.

The only position we come close to competing with them at is CB.

It's not like Dumerville, Williams, Woodyard, and Bailey weren't there last year, and Dumerville makes that whole D better.

I don't think there's an ENORMOUS talent gap between them and Hali, DJ, Demorrio Williams and Brandon Flowers.

If the Chiefs had made the same moves the Broncos made on defense they would be SIGNIFICANTLY better. No one was looking for a top 10 D in KC this year. Top 20 would have been nice.

FAX · 12-07-2009, 03:12 PM

Cred Alert!!! Cred Alert!!!

FAX

keg in kc · 12-07-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

I don't think there's an ENORMOUS talent gap between them and Hali, DJ, Demorrio Williams and Brandon Flowers.

If the Chiefs had made the same moves the Broncos made on defense they would be SIGNIFICANTLY better. No one was looking for a top 10 D in KC this year. Top 20 would have been nice.

Do you not realize how ludicrous that sounds?

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

If I believed that, I probably would have said it.

But go ahead, keep making stuff up.

If you don't believe they resigned themselves to sucking then you clearly believe they made moves with an eye towards improving the team.

So which one is it?

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Do you not realize how ludicrous that sounds?

It's not ludicrous at all.

Dumervil had five sacks last season.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-07-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The Broncos had more talent on D than we did.

The only position we come close to competing with them at is CB.

It's not like Dumerville, Williams, Woodyard, and Bailey weren't there last year, and Dumerville makes that whole D better.

True.

However, it comes back to talent evaluation.

Denver acquired 6 new defensive starters and 1 rotational player via FA, and hit on every ****ing one of them. Batting 1.000. 3 new offensive starters, hitting on each. Still batting 1.000.

Shy of Chambers and Succop, not one acquisition of ours, offensively or defensively has been a clear upgrade over their 2008 counterparts. Some have been a push, some have been downgrades. We brought in over 30 players.

One team is batting 1.000, and the other is batting .066.

**Slainte** · 12-07-2009, 03:18 PM

It has served us well, this myth of Pioli...

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Now break down all the Awesome moves that BB made this past off-season.
And don't give me Richard Seymore. That's Raiders hilarity, not BB genius.
Guess what. The Patriots are falling fast.

quote
Bobby Engram: FAIL
"Bobby Wade: FAIL
Amani Toomer: FAIL
Monty Beisel: FAIL
Mike Brown: FAIL" [Hamas]

We turned over a third of the roster, and you're gonna point at a bunch of league minimum guys we brought in, and say fail because they didn't work out?

I'm with ya man. I think a team should be able to bring in 23 players, and have everyone of them start, and contribute at a high level. **snicker**

They turned over a 3rd of the roster and got no improvement, everyone they brought in is just as bad if not worse than the guy they replaced.

That's real confidence inspiring.

12-07-2009, 01:12 PM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The myth of Pioli LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0 This time it’s personnel Building to collapse By Ron Borges Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago + Recent Articles MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner. That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21. Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro football. It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way. Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday. While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL. These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots. “It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him. Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now. Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom? They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom? Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom? Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses? That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change. “We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.” The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it. “We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too. “Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.” That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.
Posts: 2,613

12-07-2009, 03:08 PM	#95
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7259572	The Broncos had more talent on D than we did. The only position we come close to competing with them at is CB. It's not like Dumerville, Williams, Woodyard, and Bailey weren't there last year, and Dumerville makes that whole D better. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,077

12-07-2009, 03:12 PM	#99
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Cred Alert!!! Cred Alert!!! FAX
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12-07-2009, 03:18 PM	#104
Slainte Please speak your mind Join Date: Feb 2006 Casino cash: $10010402	It has served us well, this myth of Pioli... __________________ And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations Revelation 22:2
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