Chiefs The myth of Pioli - Page 8

B_Ambuehl · 12-07-2009, 01:12 PM

LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0

This time it’s personnel
Building to collapse
By Ron Borges
Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago
+ Recent Articles

MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner.

That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21.

Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro
football.

It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way.

Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday.

While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL.

These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots.

“It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him.

Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now.

Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom?

They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom?

Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom?

Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses?

That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change.

“We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.”

The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it.

“We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too.

“Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.”

That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-07-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

True.

However, it comes back to talent evaluation.

Denver acquired 6 new defensive starters and 1 rotational player via FA, and hit on every ****ing one of them. Batting 1.000. 3 new offensive starters, hitting on each. Still batting 1.000.

Shy of Chambers and Succop, not one acquisition of ours, offensively or defensively has been a clear upgrade over their 2008 counterparts. Some have been a push, some have been downgrades. We brought in over 30 players.

One team is batting 1.000, and the other is batting .066.

Xanders+McDaniel> Pioli+Haley.

MOhillbilly · 12-07-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

I don't think there's an ENORMOUS talent gap between them and Hali, DJ, Demorrio Williams and Brandon Flowers.

you are ****ing stoopid.

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 03:22 PM

This thread tells me one thing, some people want the Chiefs to be good so badly they'll overlook things staring them right in the face just because he's not Carl.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-07-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Xanders+McDaniel> Pioli+Haley.

Sadly, yes.

**DeezNutz** · 12-07-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

That doesn't make sense. They have been using changing the culture since the very first day they started. It is not like they started using it last week.

Correct. And it's bullshit, no matter who says it or when.

keg in kc · 12-07-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

If you don't believe they resigned themselves to sucking then you clearly believe they made moves with an eye towards improving the team.

So which one is it?

I believe they wanted to take a hard look at the players on the roster, to ascertain specifically who fits and who doesn't, because they more players that are here who work, the better it is.

I believe that's true on both sides of the ball.

I also believe that every move they've made was made with an eye towards improving the team, including the moves made during the season.

I also believe that what this team is missing is core talent, real superstars that winning teams are built around, and that's not something you can generally find floating around in free agency. Which is why the draft is so very important.

(Which is also what I think differentiates a team like Denver from us. They're at the point - and have been for several years - where they can bring in players to round out an already talented roster. Whereas the Chiefs are starting from the bottom - and have been for several years.)

Titty Meat · 12-07-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

This thread tells me one thing, some people want the Chiefs to be good so badly they'll overlook things staring them right in the face just because he's not Carl.

Or because some people know it takes more then 1 year to build a competitive team. Weren't you the one railing aginst people calling them true fans cuz they wanted to go 8-8 or 9-7 this year by signing players?

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 03:26 PM

Dude what have they done to start building a core? Where is the starting point?

There's nothing, we got a ****ing 5 tech DE in the top 5 and a shit ass QB a long with a coach that could probably be out coached on gameday by a madden player.

Man I'm really ****ing impressed with this "progress"

Hammock Parties · 12-07-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I also believe that every move they've made was made with an eye towards improving the team

So, they failed?

Mecca · 12-07-2009, 03:28 PM

This team hasn't been improved at all by Pioli's moves, 99% of the guys they brought in are either the same or worse than the guy they replaced and in most cases older.

Hell any of the few core players we have are Herm guys, the first year is where you start building a foundation. If this is a foundation Scott Pioli must be homeless.

**The Franchise** · 12-07-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

Or because some people know it takes more then 1 year to build a competitive team. Weren't you the one railing aginst people calling them true fans cuz they wanted to go 8-8 or 9-7 this year by signing players?

FFS....it's not like everyone is expecting them to rebuild everything in 1 year. I fully expect that if they do things correctly...it's going to take 3-4 years before we can compete with the big boys in the AFC. As it stands now though....they haven't done a whole lot to show me that they know what the hell they are doing.

It took Goff getting injured before we got a new RG.
Niswanger is STILL starting at center even though he ****ing blows.
There are players out there on other team's practice squad that should be getting activated by us....but they're not. Shit...even Harris on our practice squad needs to get moved up. Instead we got Quentin ****ing Lawrence.

AND WHY THE **** IS TERRANCE COPPER STILL ON THIS TEAM!?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-07-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

Or because some people know it takes more then 1 year to build a competitive team. Weren't you the one railing aginst people calling them true fans cuz they wanted to go 8-8 or 9-7 this year by signing players?

How many ****ing times does the same false choice have to be trotted out?

Would we be demonstrably better in W's and L's had we drafted a QB @ 3, sat him for a year behind a vet/Croyle, and drafted heavily to the strength of the draft--OL, and stayed in a 4-3

No.

Would this team be showing signs of improvement towards the end of the year as younger players got significant run over 30+ year old broke dick nothings?

I think a case could be made.

Would that be infinitely better long term for the purposes of evaluating the young players that we do have?

Yes.

If this year is an evaluation year, then BRING IN SOME MOTHER****ERS WHO WILL STILL BE HERE WHEN THE EVALUATIONS WILL MATTER.

BigChiefFan · 12-07-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

This team hasn't been improved at all by Pioli's moves, 99% of the guys they brought in are either the same or worse than the guy they replaced and in most cases older.

Hell any of the few core players we have are Herm guys, the first year is where you start building a foundation. If this is a foundation Scott Pioli must be homeless.

Moving away from the gimmick spread offense is already a step in the right direction. Why is so hard to fathom, that there would be growing pains along the way?

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-07-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

Or because some people know it takes more then 1 year to build a competitive team. Weren't you the one railing aginst people calling them true fans cuz they wanted to go 8-8 or 9-7 this year by signing players?

Yes, it takes more than one year to build a competitive team.

However, when you bring in over 30 new players, and only 2 of them are clear upgrades, it's going to take a LOT longer.

Most of the folks complaining weren't expecting more than 3-4 wins.

However, they were expecting to see progress, both at the team and individual level.

People can complain that Herm and Carl left them shit, but let's not forget that the new regime turned over 70% of the roster and brought in their handpicked players - and failed at every turn, save Succop and Chambers.

MOhillbilly · 12-07-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Dude what have they done to start building a core? Where is the starting point?

There's nothing, we got a ****ing 5 tech DE in the top 5 and a shit ass QB a long with a coach that could probably be out coached on gameday by a madden player.

Man I'm really ****ing impressed with this "progress"

This team has a long,long,long, history of front office **** ups. For me that starts at the very top and rolls down hill.

12-07-2009, 01:12 PM
B_Ambuehl Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Casino cash: $9705405	The myth of Pioli LOL I wonder if he's sharing that loaded contract he got from Clark with Bellichik. http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/c...148&position=0 This time it’s personnel Building to collapse By Ron Borges Monday, December 7, 2009 - Updated 4m ago + Recent Articles MIAMI - Slowly but inexorably they are dissolving in front of our eyes. It is a process that didn’t begin this year for the New England Patriots [team stats] but way back in 2004, when nobody was paying attention to much else but the lifting of another Super Bowl banner. That season they won their third Super Bowl in four seasons but also began a widely ignored decline that manifested itself emphatically the past month and came to a sad head yesterday at Land Shark Stadium when they lost for the third time in four weeks, blowing a 14-0 lead to be beaten at the buzzer by the Miami Dolphins [team stats], 22-21. Five years ago, the Patriots draft garnered two starters, both on the first round. Not another player drafted in April of 2004 is still in uniform. That fallowness continued in 2005 when they again picked only two current starters. In 2006, they got only one, running back Laurence Maroney [stats], plus kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Then came the disaster of 2007, when only first-round pick Brandon Meriweather was good enough to still be in pro football. It is a bit early to know about 2008 but other than linebacker Jerod Mayo it again appears to be a sad lot. Second- and third-round picks Terrence Wheatley and Shawn Crable seldom see the field (Crable never has) and it is becoming increasingly more disastrous that cornerback Jonathan Wilhite sees so much of it. In those five years, the Patriots drafted 41 players and got eight starters, six on the first round. Otherwise they got what Bill Belichick kept saying was “value.” Yesterday, it didn’t look that way. Free agency has produced similarly skimpy results. Early hits were made on Rodney Harrison [stats] and Mike Vrabel, but after that the cupboard has been bare. They paid $30 million to Adalius Thomas and promised he could cover Ocho Cinco and sack Peyton Manning. He’s done neither. Shawn Springs signed a three-year, $10.5 million deal last spring and hasn’t played a snap in a month, while poor Wilhite struggles out of position because he’s a nickel back asked to play corner and rookie Darius Butler goes out and proves that while he has potential he never saw receivers at UConn like the ones catching balls behind and in front of him now, as Greg Camarillo did on fourth-and-6 on the game’s most critical play yesterday. While there were fruitful trades for Randy Moss and Wes Welker, they have netted big numbers but no championships, which is the same amount Moss’ teams have won since he first came into the NFL. These facts led New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton to tell his team before last Monday night’s game to be stout hearted and unafraid because “this isn’t the team that accomplished all that stuff.” Although his language was more colorful, his point was clear. These Patriots aren’t those Patriots. “It’s not for lack of effort,” center Dan Koppen said not long after Dolphins kicker Dan Carpenter nailed a 41-yard field goal and Tom Brady [stats] responded by throwing his second interception of the day with :35 to play as Cameron Wake hammered him. Koppen is right. The Patriots’ problems are not from lack of effort or lack of planning. They are from lack of talent. Not so lacking that they aren’t competitive, but lacking enough that most every game is a struggle now. Today everyone will say, “They need a better pass rush.” From whom? They will say, “They need better pass coverage.” From whom? Some will say they need to run the ball more to take pressure off Brady and his ailing ring finger, sore shoulder and aching ribs. By whom? Years ago, Chuck Fairbanks said it best. “It’s not about X’s and O’s. It’s about Jimmys and Joes.” For half a decade with the Pats people believed otherwise. In Bill We Trust became the motto, but does anyone honestly believe Bill Belichick forgot how to coach? A guy who has been watching game film since he was 6 now can’t break down film and discover a team’s weaknesses? That’s not the problem. The problem is he can’t ask people to do what they are not capable of doing. Or, worse, he does and you end up with Sam Aiken, a guy brought here to replace Larry Izzo [stats] on special teams, as your third receiver making one great catch for a touchdown and dropping two key ones. Did he have a great game or a disastrous one? Probably both, which is A) not his fault because he’s playing a role he was never supposed to, and B) not something Belichick can change. “We’ve got to find a way to play better football for 60 minutes in all phases,” Brady said. “Everyone has to focus on what they need to do better. I think that’s the most important thing. And be mentally tough to overcome adversity and if things don’t go your way, you’ve got to fight back. That’s a challenge for all of us. At times I think we do, and other times, I don’t think we fight very hard.” The latter is a damning statement, but it’s also part of what separates the 2001 Pats from today’s. Remaining undaunted is a skill too and not everyone has it. “We have leads in the second half, and leads in the fourth quarter,” Brady continued. “We’re just not closing the game out when we have the opportunity to. We’re searching for the answers, too. “Coach always says, ‘You get what you deserve.’ In too many ways, you don’t deserve to win when you make as many mistakes as we do.” That’s true whether you make them on the field or in the front office.
Posts: 2,613

12-07-2009, 03:22 PM	#108
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-522950	This thread tells me one thing, some people want the Chiefs to be good so badly they'll overlook things staring them right in the face just because he's not Carl.
Posts: 115,257

12-07-2009, 03:26 PM	#113
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-522950	Dude what have they done to start building a core? Where is the starting point? There's nothing, we got a **ing 5 tech DE in the top 5 and a shit ass QB a long with a coach that could probably be out coached on gameday by a madden player. Man I'm really **ing impressed with this "progress"
Posts: 115,257

12-07-2009, 03:28 PM	#115
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-522950	This team hasn't been improved at all by Pioli's moves, 99% of the guys they brought in are either the same or worse than the guy they replaced and in most cases older. Hell any of the few core players we have are Herm guys, the first year is where you start building a foundation. If this is a foundation Scott Pioli must be homeless.
Posts: 115,257