Poor Preseason Puts Heat on Pioli, Cassel

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

This team is ****ed if we're reaching in the 2nd round for ST players....just because our ST sucks.

And I'm not downplaying what Arenas can do when it comes to STs.....but for a 2nd round pick.....he either should be pushing for the #2 CB job....or he should be the one of the best nicklebacks in the league.

I don't think Arenas was a reach.

I don't think he would've lasted past the 2nd round thats how good of a player I think he is. Same can be said for McCluster. Bottomline, you're not going to get talented players like that in later rounds. No way. Not this day and age.

Those picks are solid and great value. That is how you got to look at it.
Sure we could of improved at other positions, but at least we've improved in areas of our team we needed to. The Chiefs went by what was best available that they felt could help their team. And they went by what they felt the market offered them best at the time, that is, Arenas and McCluster.

I think those picks come down to BPA and position of need. They capitalized there. Have to hand it to them.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by RedThat

I don't think Arenas was a reach.

I don't think he would've lasted past the 2nd round thats how good of a player I think he is. Same can be said for McCluster. Bottomline, you're not going to get talented players like that in later rounds. No way. Not this day and age.

Nonsense.

Sproles was a 4th rounder. Breaston was a 5th rounder. Perrish Cox was a 5th rounder.

Need I go on?

Originally Posted by RedThat

Those picks are solid and great value. That is how you got to look at it.

No, I don't "got" to look at like that, at all. While the Chiefs were and are in dire need of playmakers, I don't think the team would be worse if they had taken Lindval Joseph and Daryl Washington instead of Arenas and McCluster.

When the Chiefs are routinely gashed for 200 yards on the ground in 2010 and they only win 5 games tops, maybe THEN you'll understand.

Originally Posted by RedThat

Sure we could of improved at other positions, but at least we've improved in areas of our team we needed to. The Chiefs went by what was best available that they felt could help their team. And they went by what they felt the market offered them best at the time, that is, Arenas and McCluster.

I think those picks come down to BPA and position of need. They capitalized there. Have to hand it to them.

Best Available is a matter of opinion and in my opinion, these guys were NOT the best available. The Chiefs have needs all over the roster and would have benefited more from guys that play every snap, not guys that are role players.

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Nonsense.

Sproles was a 4th rounder. Breaston was a 5th rounder. Perrish Cox was a 5th rounder.

Need I go on?

That was what? 3,4 or 5 years ago? You don't see players like that lasting far into the draft simply because those kind of players have more value in the game today than they did before.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, I don't "got" to look at like that, at all. While the Chiefs were and are in dire need of playmakers, I don't think the team would be worse if they had taken Lindval Joseph and Daryl Washington instead of Arenas and McCluster.

When the Chiefs are routinely gashed for 200 yards on the ground in 2010 and they only win 5 games tops, maybe THEN you'll understand.

No I do understand. I don't look for ways to complain that they didn't draft this guy or that guy because they could of filled this position instead of that one, etc...this is a long term process, a rebuilding process that takes a while. i understand no team is going to get all their pieces in place overnight. But for what we drafted at that time in that round was good value, and those players definately addressed positions of need. Now the key is, do this very same thing next year, except at another position that we could use BPA to go with position of need.

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Best Available is a matter of opinion and in my opinion, these guys were NOT the best available. The Chiefs have needs all over the roster and would have benefited more from guys that play every snap, not guys that are role players.

Unfortunately the Chiefs disagree with you. You either cheer for them or complain against them.

Team needs aren't all going to be addressed in one night. People have to understand that. Accept the teams weaknesses for what they are, and hopefully they can address the team weaknesses next year. We argue about sh*t like this every year and it gets us nowhere. It's pointless. Considering what they got out of this years draft is progress. Like it or not. We should be grateful instead of complaining. Besides, what makes these picks great is that these guys( Arenas and McCluster) can improve your team in more ways than one.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by RedThat

That was what? 3,4 or 5 years ago? You don't see players like that lasting far into the draft simply because those kind of players have more value in the game today than they did before.





No I do understand. I don't look for ways to complain that they didn't draft this guy or that guy because they could of filled this position instead of that one, etc...this is a long term process, a rebuilding process that takes a while. i understand no team is going to get all their pieces in place overnight. But for what we drafted at that time in that round was good value, and those players definately addressed positions of need. Now the key is, do this very same thing next year, except at another position that we could use BPA to go with position of need.





Unfortunately the Chiefs disagree with you. You either cheer for them or complain against them.

Team needs aren't all going to be addressed in one night. People have to understand that. Accept the teams weaknesses for what they are, and hopefully they can address the team weaknesses next year. We argue about sh*t like this every year and it gets us nowhere. It's pointless. Considering what they got out of this years draft is progress. Like it or not. We should be grateful instead of complaining. Besides, what makes these picks great is that these guys( Arenas and McCluster) can improve your team in more ways than one.

There isn't single thing you said here that is right, or even remotely makes a bit of sense.

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by milkman

There isn't single thing you said here that is right, or even remotely makes a bit of sense.

why doesn't it make sense?

[milkman]

Originally Posted by RedThat

why doesn't it make sense?

Let's go through it.

Originally Posted by RedThat

That was what? 3,4 or 5 years ago? You don't see players like that lasting far into the draft simply because those kind of players have more value in the game today than they did before.

The game hasn't changed that reurners have more value than every down players, and most of the top returners are 4th round or later picks.

I believe Joshua Cribs was an UDFA.

No I do understand. I don't look for ways to complain that they didn't draft this guy or that guy because they could of filled this position instead of that one, etc...this is a long term process, a rebuilding process that takes a while. i understand no team is going to get all their pieces in place overnight. But for what we drafted at that time in that round was good value, and those players definately addressed positions of need. Now the key is, do this very same thing next year, except at another position that we could use BPA to go with position of need.

No one has to look for ways to complain, the complaints are slaping us right in the face.

And this rebuilding is made a longer term process because they ****ed up their first offseason with every single move that they made.

And I still believe that addressing the NT position should have been far more important than nickle corner and returner.

Unfortunately the Chiefs disagree with you. You either cheer for them or complain against them.

Team needs aren't all going to be addressed in one night. People have to understand that. Accept the teams weaknesses for what they are, and hopefully they can address the team weaknesses next year. We argue about sh*t like this every year and it gets us nowhere. It's pointless. Considering what they got out of this years draft is progress. Like it or not. We should be grateful instead of complaining. Besides, what makes these picks great is that these guys( Arenas and McCluster) can improve your team in more ways than one.

We argue about this shit every year and it gets us nowhere.

Think about that for just a second.

If this team had adressed any of the things we argue about every year, we wouyldn't be arguing about it this year.

Of course our arguments are getting us nowhere.
We're just fans on a mesage board.

But the people in charge haven't gotten us anywhere.

[RedThat]

Originally Posted by milkman

Let's go through it.



The game hasn't changed that reurners have more value than every down players, and most of the top returners are 4th round or later picks.

I believe Joshua Cribs was an UDFA.

Joshua Cribbs was 5 years ago. We tried to fix the return game last year with quiten lawrence and that didn't pan out well. At least we got Arenas, problem solved. you don't get Arenas in the 2nd, good luck finding a returner in the later rounds of that draft or somewhere else?

Originally Posted by milkman

No one has to look for ways to complain, the complaints are slaping us right in the face.

And this rebuilding is made a longer term process because they ****ed up their first offseason with every single move that they made.

And I still believe that addressing the NT position should have been far more important than nickle corner and returner..

Yeah that's just **** up after **** up by the organization. We fail some years to address critical positions and it comes back and bites us in the a** and leads to us bitchn...I agree we could use a NT, but then do you want Terrance Cody? We weren't going to get any of the best NT's available on the FA market either because they were secured by their teams. Im still convinced Arenas was the best player picked at the time. Unless you want Cody, but Id rather have Arenas over Cody jmo.

Originally Posted by milkman

We argue about this shit every year and it gets us nowhere.

Think about that for just a second.

If this team had adressed any of the things we argue about every year, we wouyldn't be arguing about it this year.

Of course our arguments are getting us nowhere.
We're just fans on a mesage board.

Agreed. I guess thats the good thing that comes out of a bad off-season, you have a message board to bitch about it lol

[milkman]

Originally Posted by RedThat

Joshua Cribbs was 5 years ago. We tried to fix the return game last year with quiten lawrence and that didn't pan out well. At least we got Arenas, problem solved. you don't get Arenas in the 2nd, good luck finding a returner in the later rounds of that draft or somewhere else?

Watch the NFL this season.

There are going to be a number of good returners that were drafted late in the last couple of years around the league.

You don't spend a 2nd round pick now, or ever, on a return specialist.

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by milkman

You don't spend a 2nd round pick now, or ever, on a return specialist.

I totally agree, I really didn't like our 2A or 2B for similar logic. I hope I am wrong, but round two could have been sooo much better for us.