Royals 2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread - Page 224

SPchief · 04:22 PM

All Royals All The Time!

After consultation with others who peruse the game threads we decided to create this as a repository for all things Royals. Minor league news, AL (ahem) Central (thanks Vonne) news and anything Royals can be found here.

alnorth, me and atleast 5 others will continue the game threads as usual. But if you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

If a big story breaks, you can still start a thread about it. There is merely an all inclusive thread that will make a easy for us all to keep up with all things Royals.

Welcome! "Grab a Brew... don't cost nuthin"...[spills beer on feet]

**alnorth** · 12-17-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I didn't even need sources to tell you that.

That report doesnt validate your position at all. The guy who reported it was taking the Royals side basically saying that Toronto wasn't being realistic. Specifically he said something like "cant say that I blame the Royals".

eazyb81 · 12-17-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Couple news items today.

1) Greinke has changed agents. No clue what that means for us.

Same agent as Gil Meche and Alex Gordon. Hmmm.

KC_Connection · 12-17-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

That report doesnt validate your position at all. The guy who reported it was taking the Royals side basically saying that Toronto wasn't being realistic. Specifically he said something like "cant say that I blame the Royals".

#1. Who said that?

#2. The Jays aren't giving up 5-6 years of Snider and Drabek for 2 years of Greinke. That's insanity, and it was never going to happen.

**alnorth** · 12-17-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

#1. Who said that?

#2. The Jays aren't giving up 5-6 years of Snider and Drabek for 2 years of Greinke. That's insanity, and it was never going to happen.

Jon Heyman, Sports Illustrated

Quote:

In response to earlier reports the Royals were talking to the Blue Jays about a deal of Kyle Drabek and Travis Snider for Zack Greinke, one GM said, "They're asking for a lot more than that.'' Can't blame them if so. Greinke is an ace pitcher with only $27 million to go on his contract over the next two years.

You may not think he's worth what the Royals are asking for, but you are in the minority. Most writers I've seen covering this agree that the Royals should stick to their guns.

Again, a pitcher on the wrong side of 30 has 3 $120MM+ 5-7 year contracts thrown at him. We do not determine the value of pitchers, the teams do, and right now that value is through the roof.

**DeezNutz** · 12-17-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

#1. Who said that?

#2. The Jays aren't giving up 5-6 years of Snider and Drabek for 2 years of Greinke. That's insanity, and it was never going to happen.

You keep acting as though these two players have accomplished something, and they haven't.

Two prospects, unless we're talking about one being a generational talent like Junior or A-Rod, (plus some likely trash) in exchange for an ace is FAR from insane.

KC_Connection · 12-17-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

Jon Heyman, Sports Illustrated

Heyman is a moron and should never be trusted for any baseball analysis whatsoever. Anybody that follows him on Twitter or reads his articles regularly should know that.

Quote:

You may not think he's worth what the Royals are asking for, but you are in the minority. Most writers I've seen covering this agree that the Royals should stick to their guns.

There's no doubt he's worth a lot, but the Jays aren't going to give up two cheap potential stars when they aren't even close to contending in 2011.

KC_Connection · 12-17-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

You keep acting as though these two players have accomplished something, and they haven't.

Snider put up a league average season as a 22 year old...I know you think that's insignificant, but that is actually accomplishing something.

And Drabek is one of the top 5 pitching prospects in baseball right now. He may not have accomplished anything at the MLB level, but that is worth a hell of a lot.

**alnorth** · 12-17-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

There's no doubt he's worth a lot, but the Jays aren't going to give up two cheap potential stars when they aren't even close to contending in 2011.

2 "cheap potential stars" are not worth Greinke. Maybe it doesnt make sense for Toronto to trade them because they dont think it fits in their timeframe for contention, but put aside Toronto and look at the players in a vacuum. If the Royals trade Greinke with 2 years left for 2 players similar to Drabek and Snider, they probably have lost that trade.

KC_Connection · 12-17-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

2 "cheap potential stars" are not worth Greinke.

You're right, they are worth MORE than two years of Greinke.

Quote:

Maybe it doesnt make sense for Toronto to trade for them because they dont think it fits in their timeframe for contention, but put aside Toronto and look at the players in a vacuum. If the Royals trade Greinke with 2 years left for 2 players similar to Drabek and Snider, they probably have lost that trade.

I'll let you in on a secret here having gone through the experience just last year. It really doesn't matter what they do, the Royals are going to lose this trade, just like the Jays lost the Halladay one. There is no realistic way to get fair value in a trade for a pitcher of their caliber, you just have to get the best you can and get out.

KC_Connection · 12-17-2010, 02:11 PM

Also, if you could somehow convince him to re-sign sometime in the next two years, that would, of course, be the best option.

**alnorth** · 12-17-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

You're right, they are worth MORE than two years of Greinke.

I'll let you in on a secret here having gone through the experience just last year. It really doesn't matter what they do, the Royals are going to lose this trade, just like the Jays lost the Halladay one. There is no realistic way to get fair value in a trade for a pitcher of their caliber, you just have to get the best you can and get out.

You are nuts.

1) It is not a forgone conclusion that Greinke wont re-sign. We will have traded off that opportunity, and you must pay for it.

2) Cliff Lee, $120MM. *NO* Ace free agent after 2011. The market is the market. Maybe you and Toronto dont agree with it, but ace pitchers are worth insane money.

3) If we dont trade greinke, we get 2 high draft picks anyway. If you think Drabek and Snider are worth more than Greinke, you are out of your flippin mind.

**alnorth** · 12-17-2010, 02:15 PM

Greinke changing agents is rather surprising. He doesnt really need a new agent for a couple years unless:

1) talks of re-signing with the Royals are getting serious.

2) He just wants to be prepared to negotiate an extension with a new team, which implies that he's been told a trade is likely.

KC_Connection · 12-17-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

You are nuts.

No, I'm only realistic. You need to realize, just as I did, that no team is going to give up fair value in a trade for an ace pitcher. The Jays did very well in getting Drabek, Wallace (now Gose), and D'Arnaud, but it's very unlikely that they'll ever amount to what Halladay would have done had he stayed in Toronto. The same thing goes for whatever the Royals will get for Greinke. The easiest thing is to just accept that..

Quote:

1) It is not a forgone conclusion that Greinke wont re-sign. We will have traded off that opportunity, and you must pay for it.

If it's not, they shouldn't trade him.

Quote:

3) If we dont trade greinke, we get 2 high draft picks anyway. If you think Drabek and Snider are worth more than Greinke, you are out of your flippin mind.

Two draft picks are relatively worthless compared to what you'll get in any trade, though, so that isn't a reasonable answer. You either have to re-sign Greinke or trade him for the most you can get right now.

And yes, once again, 5-6 years of Snider and Drabek each are worth more than two years of Greinke.

**DeezNutz** · 12-17-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Two draft picks are relatively worthless compared to what you'll get in any trade, though, so that isn't a reasonable answer.

100 percent false. Every year, top talent falls because of signability concerns, and the Royals have been selecting these players.

Example A: Myers, arguably the best position prospect in the Royals system.

If Moore were to trade Greinke tomorrow for nothing more than two prospects similar to Snider and Drabek, he should be fired on the spot. And I don't mean this as a criticism of these prospects.

chiefsnorth · 12-17-2010, 02:24 PM

Sounds like a lot of confusion around here between the player's value to a fan versus the player's value to a baseball franchise.

01-06-2010, 01:51 AM
SPchief In Search of a Life Join Date: Feb 2004 Casino cash: $-1737095	2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread All Royals All The Time! After consultation with others who peruse the game threads we decided to create this as a repository for all things Royals. Minor league news, AL (ahem) Central (thanks Vonne) news and anything Royals can be found here. alnorth, me and atleast 5 others will continue the game threads as usual. But if you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here. If a big story breaks, you can still start a thread about it. There is merely an all inclusive thread that will make a easy for us all to keep up with all things Royals. Welcome! "Grab a Brew... don't cost nuthin"...[spills beer on feet] Last edited by SPchief; 01-06-2010 at 04:22 PM..
Posts: 36,178

12-17-2010, 02:11 PM	#3355
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $1722783	Also, if you could somehow convince him to re-sign sometime in the next two years, that would, of course, be the best option.
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12-17-2010, 02:15 PM	#3357
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57156239	Greinke changing agents is rather surprising. He doesnt really need a new agent for a couple years unless: 1) talks of re-signing with the Royals are getting serious. 2) He just wants to be prepared to negotiate an extension with a new team, which implies that he's been told a trade is likely. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry
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12-17-2010, 02:24 PM	#3360
chiefsnorth Veteran Join Date: Apr 2010 Casino cash: $10004900	Sounds like a lot of confusion around here between the player's value to a fan versus the player's value to a baseball franchise.
Posts: 1,808