2011 Draft Piorities: Pick Three

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Not really, man. The same people whom you probably believe to be the most reactional on this site are the same ones who consistently defended Dorsey and argued for patience. Why? Because unlike a player like Jackson, Dorsey had the resume out of college to warrant belief in his upside.

There are some echoes here to the QB discussion from yesterday. Past history of individual players matters.

Yeeup.

Jackson - I shit on immediately because he was terrible from the jump. Ditto Cassel and McCluster. I really don't feel like I've mis-fired on any of that nor am I worried that I will.

Dorsey, DJ and Carr, I've defended them almost their entire careers because you frequently saw flashes that we knew they just had to develop.

The folks that are often quick to disparage the critical as "impatient" are usually the same folks that just assume anyone being critical is doing so as part of a wholesale hatred of the organization. That's just not the case. I'm patient with a lot of guys and lose hope quickly on others. If we bring in a NT that shows promise (i.e. Raji), I would gladly give him time to develop and I'm sure most of the other 'reactionaries' would do the same.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The folks that are often quick to disparage the critical as "impatient" are usually the same folks that just assume anyone being critical is doing so as part of a wholesale hatred of the organization. That's just not the case. I'm patient with a lot of guys and lose hope quickly on others. If we bring in a NT that shows promise (i.e. Raji), I would gladly give him time to develop and I'm sure most of the other 'reactionaries' would do the same.

Painting with a broad brush is easier because it requires almost no critical thinking.

Be happy! Trust! You're not a GM! Franchise QBs don't grow on trees! Oh, like you could do better?!!

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The folks that are often quick to disparage the critical as "impatient" are usually the same folks that just assume anyone being critical is doing so as part of a wholesale hatred of the organization. That's just not the case. I'm patient with a lot of guys and lose hope quickly on others. If we bring in a NT that shows promise (i.e. Raji), I would gladly give him time to develop and I'm sure most of the other 'reactionaries' would do the same.

The "I thought he sucked from the get-go" is a poor excuse for not giving players the usual development time, and Raji only made one start as a rookie. But the howls of internet posters should not be a deterrent for Pioli. If there's a top NT prospect, he should definitely think very seriously about taking that player.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The "I thought he sucked from the get-go" is a poor excuse for not giving players the usual development time, and Raji only made one start as a rookie. But the howls of internet posters should not be a deterrent for Pioli. If there's a top NT prospect, he should definitely think very seriously about taking that player.

It's not an excuse if it's accurate.

It's not hard to see when players simply lack the ability to excel at this level. When watching Jackson, I will concede that I absolutely see an NFL player there. He's a big guy with legitimate athletic ability. However, he's also a complete idiot and a bit of a loafer.

He's never going to live up to his draft pick. It's just not going to happen. My saying that from the moment the pick was made is hardly unfair gnashing and wailing. It's a statement of belief based on what I've seen. Would you prefer we all just sit around singing Kumbayah until a player's third season?

If the criticism is unreasonable (i.e. Petro's "Barry is a Bust" campaign) call it as such. If the criticism turns out to be inaccurate ("Carr is worthless, cut his ass"), point that out as well.

But if someone calls a spade a spade very early on and this assertion turns out to be accurate, what's unfair about that?

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's not an excuse if it's accurate.

It's not hard to see when players simply lack the ability to excel at this level. When watching Jackson, I will concede that I absolutely see an NFL player there. He's a big guy with legitimate athletic ability. However, he's also a complete idiot and a bit of a loafer.

He's never going to live up to his draft pick.

Just look at the top 12 players taken. It was a crappy top to the draft, one of the worst in recent years. That was understood going into the draft, and it's part of why it was basically impossible to trade down at the top for a non-quarterback. Hell, Belichick looked at the draft and traded out of the first round, because he thought the sweet spot in the draft made that the right way to go. I talked about the Chiefs taking Raji at the time, and I still think that would have been a good selection for the team, but the nonsense about living up to a draft pick is just that.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

My saying that from the moment the pick was made is hardly unfair gnashing and wailing. It's a statement of belief based on what I've seen. Would you prefer we all just sit around singing Kumbayah until a player's third season?

Of course it's unfair gnashing and wailing. Whether you like the pick or not, it's made. At that point, you evaluate honestly. You don't look for every single flaw and crack on a guy over it. For crying out loud, you could take any of the top 5 candidates for rookie of the year and shred them if you wanted to. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to be doing it.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If the criticism is unreasonable (i.e. Petro's "Barry is a Bust" campaign) call it as such. If the criticism turns out to be inaccurate ("Carr is worthless, cut his ass"), point that out as well.

But if someone calls a spade a spade very early on and this assertion turns out to be accurate, what's unfair about that?

Because if you did like the pick, you'd be singing Kumbaya whether or not the guy was playing like shit. The Sanchez fellatio crew have been a great example of that.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Of course it's unfair gnashing and wailing. Whether you like the pick or not, it's made. At that point, you evaluate honestly.

That's exactly what's been done.

There are many people that think any criticism or evaluation of a rookie is unfair or dishonest because "he just needs more time!!!!" and sometimes that's just assinine.

Sometimes a bad player is just bad from the get go.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's exactly what's been done.

No, it's not. Come on, you know that. Jackson and Cassel never stood a chance with a group here, and the bitching about McCluster has been like that, although to a lesser extent.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There are many people that think any criticism or evaluation of a rookie is unfair or dishonest because "he just needs more time!!!!" and sometimes that's just assinine.

Sometimes a bad player is just bad from the get go.

I agree with this. One extreme is as bad as the other.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

No, it's not. Come on, you know that. Jackson and Cassel never stood a chance with a group here, and the bitching about McCluster has been like that, although to a lesser extent.



I agree with this. One extreme is as bad as the other.

Not true at all.

How many folks came around over the last 4-5 weeks and said "Y'know - maybe Cassel isn't that bad. I apologize, I'm on the wagon", etc, etc....

A lot of people got into Cassel's corner when he performed. Had he performed early, they'd have gotten in there even sooner. Had he continued to perform, they wouldn't have left.

When the man plays quarterback like an NFL player - he gets credit for it. When he shit the bed, well that was called what it was.

As for Jackson - who the hell knows? He's sucked for his entire career, except for spits and starts of productivity which are usually noted in a game thread or a post-game thread. If he does that for any appreciable period of time, it will be commended as well.

I'm just not interested in this argument - it's simply not supportable. Guys that come in here and perform tend to get credit for it. Players that do not, don't. And there's no shortage of crow eaten either.

DN is right - you're painting with a broad brush, and not even doing that very well.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The "I thought he sucked from the get-go" is a poor excuse for not giving players the usual development time, and Raji only made one start as a rookie. But the howls of internet posters should not be a deterrent for Pioli. If there's a top NT prospect, he should definitely think very seriously about taking that player.

jesus god, does the sanctimonious bullshit from you ever stop?


and to top it off, you literally don't know what you're talking about when it comes to chiefs players and their histories on this board...

you are literally ignorant on the subject


for all that is holy shut the **** up

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

jesus god, does the sanctimonious bullshit from you ever stop?


and to top it off, you literally don't know what you're talking about when it comes to chiefs players and their histories on this board...

you are literally ignorant on the subject


for all that is holy shut the **** up

Shut the **** up, you flip-flopping douchebag. I know what I'm talking about regarding what's happened since I've been here, which is what I was referring to, and what DJ's and I were posting about.