Misc Why Monogamy is Ridiculous - Page 7

Skyy God · 01-26-2011, 11:09 AM

http://bigthink.com/ideas/24738

Dan Savage: Yeah, absolutely we need to rethink love and commitment. You know 60 years ago was when we decided that men had to be monogamous too. Men were not monogamous. For all of recorded human history men had concubines and whores, and 60 years ago straight relationships began to become more egalitarian and it was less of a property transaction—a marriage had been a property transaction for most of recorded human history—and it became a union of two equals. And at that moment instead of deciding to allow women to have the same sort of freedom and leeway that men did we decided to let men have the same limitations, impose the same limitations what women had and we put monogamous sexual commitment at the heart of all relationships, all long-term commitments, all marriages and we have watched.

We should now be able to recognize the consequences of that, which are a lot of short-term relationships, a lot of divorce. Because monogamy is ridiculous and people aren’t any good at it. We’re not wired for it. We didn’t evolve to be. It’s unnatural and it places a tremendous strain on our marriages and our long-term commitments to expect them to be effortlessly monogamous. Because what we said is "If you’re in love you shouldn’t... you won’t want to have sex with anybody else and what we need to tell people is that if you’re in love you can make a monogamous commitment and you will refrain from having sex with other people, but you will still desperately want to f**k the shit out of other people." But people understand love means I don’t want to f**k other people because of these misconceptions pumped into people’s heads about romance, love and what it means. And so they meet somebody else that they’re attracted to and they’re attracted to this other person. They go "Well, I must not be in love with my partner anymore otherwise I wouldn’t be attracted to this person." Or they feel threatened when their partners are attracted to other people because it makes them feel insecure and we just need to get passed that and we talk about monogamy the way we talk about virginity, that you’re monogamous until you f**k somebody else and they’re you’re not. You’ve ruined it. You popped your monogamy hymen and destroyed your monogamous relationship.

We need to talk about monogamy the way we talk about sobriety, which you can be monogamous and fall off the wagon and then sober back up. You can monogamous back up and get back on the wagon. And the truth of the matter is that if you’re with somebody for 40, 50 years and they only cheated on you a few times they were good at being monogamous, not bad at being monogamous. They were good at it. So I do think there needs to be some leeway. And a lot of really good loving relationships are destroyed because somebody wants a little variety or isn’t getting a need met and feels they have to step out and it explodes the relationship. I'm conservative. I think that we should do what we can to preserve marriages and long-term relationships, and one way to do that is to encourage people to have more realistic attitudes about sexual exclusivity.

Frazod · 01-26-2011, 02:47 PM

Note to self: If ever in Austria, send postcard to inlaws from ****ing.

seclark · 01-26-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

Note to self: If ever in Austria, send postcard to inlaws from ****ing.

"enjoying f@cking. wish you were here!"
sec

BucEyedPea · 01-26-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooge

this should be interesting

I wonder why?

bowener · 01-26-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv

Why even get married?

Why indeed? Over 50% end in divorce now. Might as well build the divorce into it so it doesn't cost you any extra. Its not like I am seriously proposing this be done.

BucEyedPea · 01-26-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pittsie

True story. Ex employee of a friend and her husband are/were swingers. Their relationship fell apart because the husband was not sleeping with a woman.

It's still jealousy. I know a couple who were and it didn't survive. He was a chiro of mine. Even got his wife huge breast implants and had them redone after she nursed 4 of his children. They didn't last because of jealousy. Oh! And his parents were even swingers. He learned it from Mom and Dad. Can you believe it?

BucEyedPea · 01-26-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

No, there is a biological component to it.

I actually agree with you on this. Shocker! I Think it's men that are more wired this way. I think it was a survival instinct at one time. This way the woman always knew who the father of his children were.

Inspector · 01-26-2011, 03:11 PM

I used to have a desk made of monogamy. I prefer oak though.

**cdcox** · 01-26-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

No, there is a biological component to it.

Just like there is a biological component in favor of monogamy: jealousy and feelings of attachment.

Biology pulls us both ways.

BucEyedPea · 01-26-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Just like there is a biological component in favor of monogamy: jealousy and feelings of attachment.

Biology pulls us both ways.

I'd be interested to see something showing biology favors monogamy. I think it doesn't. I think it stems from other things beyond our bodies alone.
I think men think about sex much more often than women as a whole and visualize having it with more than a few of the women they encounter.
Doesn't mean they'd act on it. Not acting on it means we can control our biology.

stevieray · 01-26-2011, 04:17 PM

talkin 'bout the girls we've seen on the sly
just to tell our souls we're still the young lions

teedubya · 01-26-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowener

Why indeed? Over 50% end in divorce now. Might as well build the divorce into it so it doesn't cost you any extra. Its not like I am seriously proposing this be done.

Yeah, and the REST end in the DEATH. Marriage... there is NO WAY OUT ALIVE!!

BucEyedPea · 01-26-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teedubya

Yeah, and the REST end in the DEATH. Marriage... there is NO WAY OUT ALIVE!!

I bet if marriage wasn't defined as is in the Bible... then all the handsome dudes like me, would have many wives... and the ugly dudes wouldn't have any.

Thus, it's my assumption that ugly dudes invented marriage. heh.

Wouldn't the ugly dudes get to have at it with the ugly womenz?

teedubya · 01-26-2011, 04:19 PM

I bet if marriage wasn't defined as is in the Bible... then all the handsome dudes like me, would have many wives... and the ugly dudes wouldn't have any.

Thus, it's my assumption that ugly dudes invented marriage. heh.

teedubya · 01-26-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

Wouldn't the ugly dudes get to have at it with the ugly womenz?

Well, the good looking dudes would take a couple ugly ones, too, I'm sure.

The ugly dudes, just get to go to war against the enemies, I guess.

BucEyedPea · 01-26-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teedubya

Well, the good looking dudes would take a couple ugly ones, too, I'm sure.

The ugly dudes, just get to go to war against the enemies, I guess.

I see. Well ya' know, I've seen some douchey males with hot womenz.

01-26-2011, 11:09 AM
Skyy God 11-5, baby Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Livin the dream Casino cash: $2191557	Why Monogamy is Ridiculous http://bigthink.com/ideas/24738 Dan Savage: Yeah, absolutely we need to rethink love and commitment. You know 60 years ago was when we decided that men had to be monogamous too. Men were not monogamous. For all of recorded human history men had concubines and whores, and 60 years ago straight relationships began to become more egalitarian and it was less of a property transaction—a marriage had been a property transaction for most of recorded human history—and it became a union of two equals. And at that moment instead of deciding to allow women to have the same sort of freedom and leeway that men did we decided to let men have the same limitations, impose the same limitations what women had and we put monogamous sexual commitment at the heart of all relationships, all long-term commitments, all marriages and we have watched. We should now be able to recognize the consequences of that, which are a lot of short-term relationships, a lot of divorce. Because monogamy is ridiculous and people aren’t any good at it. We’re not wired for it. We didn’t evolve to be. It’s unnatural and it places a tremendous strain on our marriages and our long-term commitments to expect them to be effortlessly monogamous. Because what we said is "If you’re in love you shouldn’t... you won’t want to have sex with anybody else and what we need to tell people is that if you’re in love you can make a monogamous commitment and you will refrain from having sex with other people, but you will still desperately want to fk the shit out of other people." But people understand love means I don’t want to fk other people because of these misconceptions pumped into people’s heads about romance, love and what it means. And so they meet somebody else that they’re attracted to and they’re attracted to this other person. They go "Well, I must not be in love with my partner anymore otherwise I wouldn’t be attracted to this person." Or they feel threatened when their partners are attracted to other people because it makes them feel insecure and we just need to get passed that and we talk about monogamy the way we talk about virginity, that you’re monogamous until you f**k somebody else and they’re you’re not. You’ve ruined it. You popped your monogamy hymen and destroyed your monogamous relationship. We need to talk about monogamy the way we talk about sobriety, which you can be monogamous and fall off the wagon and then sober back up. You can monogamous back up and get back on the wagon. And the truth of the matter is that if you’re with somebody for 40, 50 years and they only cheated on you a few times they were good at being monogamous, not bad at being monogamous. They were good at it. So I do think there needs to be some leeway. And a lot of really good loving relationships are destroyed because somebody wants a little variety or isn’t getting a need met and feels they have to step out and it explodes the relationship. I'm conservative. I think that we should do what we can to preserve marriages and long-term relationships, and one way to do that is to encourage people to have more realistic attitudes about sexual exclusivity.
Posts: 22,416

01-26-2011, 02:47 PM	#91
Frazod Did you hear what I said? Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-576615	Note to self: If ever in Austria, send postcard to inlaws from ****ing.
Posts: 121,713

01-26-2011, 03:11 PM	#97
Inspector MVP Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: K.C. Casino cash: $9914975	I used to have a desk made of monogamy. I prefer oak though. __________________ As always, this is IMO.
Posts: 7,917

01-26-2011, 04:17 PM	#100
stevieray Most things I worry about… Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $-1114727	talkin 'bout the girls we've seen on the sly just to tell our souls we're still the young lions
Posts: 73,989

01-26-2011, 04:19 PM	#103
teedubya Most Valuable Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Casino cash: $8993042	I bet if marriage wasn't defined as is in the Bible... then all the handsome dudes like me, would have many wives... and the ugly dudes wouldn't have any. Thus, it's my assumption that ugly dudes invented marriage. heh.
Posts: 36,828