A CB in the 1st or 2nd? - Page 4

Chiefnj2 · 01-31-2011, 10:04 AM

Stop one second with the gut reaction of "the secondary is fine, Flowers and Carr are good CB's and Arenas is a good nickle back." Maybe, maybe not.

The reason I'm asking is that last year after the Jets lost in the playoffs, Tannenbaum asked Ryan what he thought the team needed the most to continue to be competitive, and Rex said athletic, physical corners. He said to beat the Manning's, Rothlisberger's, Rivers' and Brady's you needed tough physical corners. Even though they had Revis, a decent pass D, and a struggling pass rush they brought in Cromartie and used a 1st round pick on Wilson.

Even though Flowers is solid, and Carr has his moments, should KC entertain using an early draft pick on a physical CB?

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-01-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

TJax looked good before his injury

Oh, for ****'s Sake: He looked "good" for two quarters, in the rain, on MNF, at Arrowhead? THAT'S your basis?

He looked like pure, unadulterated dogshit for 64 quarters prior to looking "good" for two quarters. He wasn't even on the game day roster when "healthy" because he became overweight and lazy during his rehab. He had a couple of average outings against sub-par competition but for the most part, sucked ****ing ass.

He was the #3 overall pick in a LOADED first round and was beaten out this past season by a guy that last played for the Las Vegas Locos of the UFL.

You can hope and wish all you want but the evidence points to the fact that the guy will never be anything more than a two-down, role player.

suzzer99 · 02-01-2011, 04:10 PM

That first round was far from loaded, in fact it was one of the worst early first rounds in recent memory. I don't think there's a lot of argument about that even. I mean it's telling that the Captain Hindsights of the world generally need to dig down to #9 or lower to cherry pick Raji, Matthews Jr. or Orakpo. I'm not saying that excuses Pioli, but it just shows how crappy that draft was.

ChiefsCountry · 02-01-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

That first round was far from loaded, in fact it was one of the worst early first rounds in recent memory. I don't think there's a lot of argument about that even. I mean it's telling that the Captain Hindsights of the world generally need to dig down to #9 or lower to cherry pick Raji, Matthews Jr. or Orakpo. I'm not saying that excuses Pioli, but it just shows how crappy that draft was.

No offense but this board pretty much said at that time had Raji has one of the picks we should use at #3. Other than Clay Matthews, the other names were all brought up as draft picks on Draft Day 2009.

suzzer99 · 02-01-2011, 05:58 PM

Yeah I mean I don't know anyone anywhere who was calling for TJax, nor am I saying I think it was a good pick. I'm just saying it's too soon to label a guy a bust after 1.5 seasons.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-01-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

That first round was far from loaded, in fact it was one of the worst early first rounds in recent memory. I don't think there's a lot of argument about that even. I mean it's telling that the Captain Hindsights of the world generally need to dig down to #9 or lower to cherry pick Raji, Matthews Jr. or Orakpo. I'm not saying that excuses Pioli, but it just shows how crappy that draft was.

Really?

Matthew Stafford
Aaron Curry
Mark Sanchez
Eugene Monroe
B.J. Raji
Michael Crabtree
Brian Orakpo
Malcolm Jenkins
Brian Cushing
Josh Freeman
Jeremy Maclin
Brandon Pettigrew
Alex Mack
Percy Harvin
Michael Oher
Vontae Davis
Clay Matthews
Eric Wood
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt
Evander Hood

ANY of those guys would have been a far better selection than Jackson and some have already gone on to Pro Bowl berths.

The idea that there wasn't a loaded first round is ludicrous.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-01-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Yeah I mean I don't know anyone anywhere who was calling for TJax, nor am I saying I think it was a good pick. I'm just saying it's too soon to label a guy a bust after 1.5 seasons.

Sure. Let's give him another five years. Because, you know, it's supposed to take the #3 overall pick years to develop.

**Tribal Warfare** · 02-01-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Sure. Let's give him another five years. Because, you know, it's supposed to take the #3 overall pick years to develop.

well in all honesty next year is the money year since the NFL average career is 3.3 years and if he doesn't show anything then it's time to crucify Pioli for the horrid decision he's made.

BigCatDaddy · 02-01-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

well in all honesty next year is the money year since the NFL average career is 3.3 years and if he doesn't show anything then it's time to crucify Pioli for the horrid decision he's made.

No, that pick was just flat out horrible from the minute it was made. I have no idea WTH was going through his head on that one. I'm just glad they went from an F draft to an A draft the next year and hopefully we get more like last year and the first was just a fluke thing.

salame · 02-01-2011, 08:19 PM

the fact that kc didn't take Raji is fu.ck.ing reeruned

milkman · 02-01-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Sure. Let's give him another five years. Because, you know, it's supposed to take the #3 overall pick years to develop.

He's never going to be worthy of the #3 pick, but as with (almost) all D-Linemen, he won't begin to reach his potential until year 3.

He also didn't as badly as you paint it.

He wasn't good, but you could begin to see him progress toward the end of the season.

His injury, and his work ethic hindered his progress, but I expect him to begin to show up next season, assuming that there is a next season.

salame · 02-01-2011, 08:56 PM

I had hoped there was some sort of secret plan for Tyson Jackson to show up to camp at 340 and be the NT
alas
nope

salame · 02-01-2011, 08:57 PM

El Jefe · 02-02-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salame

Everytime I see one of your posts, I find myself watching that gif for at least a couple minutes lol. I always want to see if anything else is going to happen

Saccopoo · 02-02-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Sure. Let's give him another five years. Because, you know, it's supposed to take the #3 overall pick years to develop.

It's been three years as a starter for Branden Albert and people are still making excuses for his level of play (or lack thereof). I don't know why a guy like Jackson isn't be given the same level of consideration as Albert is around here in terms of "needs time to develop his game."

To echo Milk, I thought he showed a few things at the end of the season that were promising (also prior to his injury at the start of the season). I think that there is some potential there that, if healthy, would lead one to believe that he'll be an effective five tech. It's not like the position mandates some athletic freak of nature. The guy needs to be big and long and tie up blockers/fill the gaps and keep the linemen off the linebackers. That's about it. Anything else is gravy.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-02-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

It's been three years as a starter for Branden Albert and people are still making excuses for his level of play (or lack thereof). I don't know why a guy like Jackson isn't be given the same level of consideration as Albert is around here in terms of "needs time to develop his game."

Albert is fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

To echo Milk, I thought he showed a few things at the end of the season that were promising (also prior to his injury at the start of the season). I think that there is some potential there that, if healthy, would lead one to believe that he'll be an effective five tech. It's not like the position mandates some athletic freak of nature. The guy needs to be big and long and tie up blockers/fill the gaps and keep the linemen off the linebackers. That's about it. Anything else is gravy.

But with the #3 overall pick, a team SHOULD get more than a two-down "effective" player.

The team should get a play-making, game changer. PERIOD.

01-31-2011, 10:04 AM
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6674388	A CB in the 1st or 2nd? Stop one second with the gut reaction of "the secondary is fine, Flowers and Carr are good CB's and Arenas is a good nickle back." Maybe, maybe not. The reason I'm asking is that last year after the Jets lost in the playoffs, Tannenbaum asked Ryan what he thought the team needed the most to continue to be competitive, and Rex said athletic, physical corners. He said to beat the Manning's, Rothlisberger's, Rivers' and Brady's you needed tough physical corners. Even though they had Revis, a decent pass D, and a struggling pass rush they brought in Cromartie and used a 1st round pick on Wilson. Even though Flowers is solid, and Carr has his moments, should KC entertain using an early draft pick on a physical CB?
Posts: 22,540

02-01-2011, 04:10 PM	#47
suzzer99 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: L.A. Casino cash: $-635716	That first round was far from loaded, in fact it was one of the worst early first rounds in recent memory. I don't think there's a lot of argument about that even. I mean it's telling that the Captain Hindsights of the world generally need to dig down to #9 or lower to cherry pick Raji, Matthews Jr. or Orakpo. I'm not saying that excuses Pioli, but it just shows how crappy that draft was.
Posts: 28,355

02-01-2011, 05:58 PM	#49
suzzer99 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: L.A. Casino cash: $-635716	Yeah I mean I don't know anyone anywhere who was calling for TJax, nor am I saying I think it was a good pick. I'm just saying it's too soon to label a guy a bust after 1.5 seasons.
Posts: 28,355

02-01-2011, 08:19 PM	#54
salame Under the Sofa Join Date: Apr 2009 Casino cash: $10010607	the fact that kc didn't take Raji is fu.ck.ing reeruned
Posts: 4,907

02-01-2011, 08:56 PM	#56
salame Under the Sofa Join Date: Apr 2009 Casino cash: $10010607	I had hoped there was some sort of secret plan for Tyson Jackson to show up to camp at 340 and be the NT alas nope
Posts: 4,907

02-01-2011, 08:57 PM	#57
salame Under the Sofa Join Date: Apr 2009 Casino cash: $10010607
Posts: 4,907