"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless


.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I have full power from Walmart to offer Albert 8 for 240 right now. Come on over, baby.

For Glass to do that it would mean he actually gives a shit about winning.

Glass is a cheapskate and has already stated he would not cough up anywhere close to 300 million.

To me it makes perfect sense with the talent we have coming up. With some added pitching-the Royals could actually be a contender again.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Swanman

I just checked out the St. Louis Post Dispatch website. Not that this means anything concrete, but the comments attached to the article were slamming Albert more than they were slamming the ballclub. That doesn't really surprise me, given many midwesterners have a hard time feeling sorry for an athlete that is being paid more money in a year than they will make in their lifetime.

I think there are ways to structure the deal to not kill either side, but both sides are being dickheads.

One of the comments was intersesting, and I think it's being mentioned here, that Albert is taking a HUGE risk by not signing a deal now. If he underperforms or gets hurt (either could happen, he's not a teenager), then he could be leaving many millions on the table. I believe others have mentioned that point in this thread.

Doesn't he have some hagging arm/shoulder injury that he plays through which will eventually require surgery?

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Why? That essentially amounts to offering him approximately $24 million/season (if you believe that figure).

If they offered him 8 years and $192 million, WTF is is 'insulting' about making that offer to a 1b that will be 32 when the contract actually starts? It's not like he's Joe Mauer, who is younger and plays a harder position. Or Cliff Lee, who's on a 3 year deal or A-Rod who gets a Yankee bonus (and plays 3b rather than 1b). Or Howard...who's deal is mother****ing stupid.

Is it a little bit low? Yeah, it's lower than I'd have likely gone. But to call it 'insulting' ignores the reality of the player's age and position.

A P will likely be the All time Home run leader-whatever team signs him will get there money back and plenty more.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by frazod

Doesn't he have some hagging arm/shoulder injury that he plays through which will eventually require surgery?

I think he has a few nagging injuries. And given the way he seems like stepping across the bag when taking throws at first, he's one collision away from costing himself $200+ million.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by frazod

Doesn't he have some hagging arm/shoulder injury that he plays through which will eventually require surgery?

Not that I have heard of. He is pretty healthy and trains year round here in town.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Swanman

I just checked out the St. Louis Post Dispatch website. Not that this means anything concrete, but the comments attached to the article were slamming Albert more than they were slamming the ballclub. That doesn't really surprise me, given many midwesterners have a hard time feeling sorry for an athlete that is being paid more money in a year than they will make in their lifetime.

I think there are ways to structure the deal to not kill either side, but both sides are being dickheads.

One of the comments was intersesting, and I think it's being mentioned here, that Albert is taking a HUGE risk by not signing a deal now. If he underperforms or gets hurt (either could happen, he's not a teenager), then he could be leaving many millions on the table. I believe others have mentioned that point in this thread.

Like I said in the spring: if Albert thinks the fans will all back him, he's wrong.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=738

Wait until he takes $30 million and complains that he can't win ballgames while his production declines.

Sure, fans will save the vitriole that would've been directed at Tino Martinez. But when Albert's putting up an OPS in the high 9s and the ballclub is paying him like he's producing at MVP levels, the fans aren't going to have much patience for his complaining. They won't boo him, but they won't put any pressure on ownership either. They'll shrug and they'll move along.

Musial is an icon in St. Louis because of who his was more than what he was. He isn't beloved because he hit the ball far and frequently, he's beloved because he was humble, gracious and unassuming. If Albert chases the last nickle then begins attempting to dictate the direction of the Cardinals while ignoring his own role in whatever predicament they may be facing, the fans will have none of it.

I suppose I was unclear in my terminology. The fans won't take 'ownerships' side, they'll take the Cardinals side. Yeah, they love Albert now. But they loved Ozzie before him. They loved Boyer and Carlton and Brock and Gibson before that. St. Louis loved the Cardinals well before Albert Pujols was here. The city will always put the Cardinals ahead of a player, any player. And if they don't feel that the proper respect is being paid to the Cardinals, they won't stand for it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by frazod

Doesn't he have some hagging arm/shoulder injury that he plays through which will eventually require surgery?

Elbow.

The belief was that it was going to give out on him sooner or later. However, at this point they've pretty much decided that there's enough scar tissue around it that it's not inherently more likely to fail than it would've been had he never strained it to begin with.

There are, however, rumors of the possibility of it developing into an arthritic condition. Rest assured, we won't know anything about that now and the Pujols camp wouldn't ever let it out (but perhaps the Cardinals medical staff knows something we don't).

Then there are his constant nagging leg injuries.

Albert isn't a guy that's built to hold up extremely well. I keep coming back to Berkman; there's a very good chance Albert ages much like Lance did. That's a pretty scary thought for someone we're pondering giving away the farm for.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

This recent article from Fangraphs is going with $5MM per WAR given recent contracts.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...jols-contract/

I think you are fooling yourself if you truly believe teams aren't going to fall over themselves to try to lock up the game's best player next year, even at the numbers he is throwing out.

Both LA teams, Both Chicago teams, NY Mets, Detroit, and a few wildcards like Washington will all be contenders.

.

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Source: #Cardinals' offer would have given Pujols about 10th-highest salary in game. Likely translates to $19M-$21M per. #MLB

Making him the 10th highest paid player in the league

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

.

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal

Source: #Cardinals' offer would have given Pujols about 10th-highest salary in game. Likely translates to $19M-$21M per. #MLB

Making him the 10th highest paid player in the league

I really doubt that was the other. The only people that know it are anyone who is the Cardinals organization, Albert's family and Lazano.

[BigRedChief]

From Strauss's STLToday column:

While Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. and general manager John Mozeliak declined to discuss specifics of the team’s initial offer, sources familiar with the process described the package’s total value at more than $200 million spread across a nine- or 10-year base. Once rejected, the deal took several other forms that involved shifting years and salary and apparently even an equity stake in the team.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

From Strauss's STLToday column:

While Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. and general manager John Mozeliak declined to discuss specifics of the team’s initial offer, sources familiar with the process described the package’s total value at more than $200 million spread across a nine- or 10-year base. Once rejected, the deal took several other forms that involved shifting years and salary and apparently even an equity stake in the team.

Hmm. I still think they get a deal done.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Hmm. I still think they get a deal done.

I dont see it. When the Cards are adding team equity into the contracts they clearly do not have, or do not want to spend, the money to get the deal done. The Cards are going to have to fight for him in FA and if the best they are offering is 10th best paid player then Pujols might as well pack his bags and put his house on the market right now.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Elbow.

The belief was that it was going to give out on him sooner or later. However, at this point they've pretty much decided that there's enough scar tissue around it that it's not inherently more likely to fail than it would've been had he never strained it to begin with.

There are, however, rumors of the possibility of it developing into an arthritic condition. Rest assured, we won't know anything about that now and the Pujols camp wouldn't ever let it out (but perhaps the Cardinals medical staff knows something we don't).

Then there are his constant nagging leg injuries.

Albert isn't a guy that's built to hold up extremely well. I keep coming back to Berkman; there's a very good chance Albert ages much like Lance did. That's a pretty scary thought for someone we're pondering giving away the farm for.

Albert is a work out machine-especially the legs, torso and back. Comparing him to Berkman is laughable.

[seclark]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Hmm. I still think they get a deal done.

i agree(kinda of).

both sides are taking a chance on what happens this season. his value could go up, or possibly go down(injury, age, wear & tear).

albert knows what he wants to be paid. the cardinals don't want to pay any more than what they have to.

imo, for the amount of $$ that will be put into this contract, it makes sense to wait the year out and negotiate a new one. i don't think the cardinals are showing ap any disrespect. if he wants to remain a cardinal and play on a competitive team, he should understand this.

again, i think he'll remain a cardinal. if not, i'll still be a cardinal fan. i've been following them since the early 60's. can't get it out of my blood now.
sec

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by seclark

i agree(kinda of).

both sides are taking a chance on what happens this season. his value could go up, or possibly go down(injury, age, wear & tear).

albert knows what he wants to be paid. the cardinals don't want to pay any more than what they have to.

imo, for the amount of $$ that will be put into this contract, it makes sense to wait the year out and negotiate a new one. i don't think the cardinals are showing ap any disrespect. if he wants to remain a cardinal and play on a competitive team, he should understand this.

again, i think he'll remain a cardinal. if not, i'll still be a cardinal fan. i've been following them since the early 60's. can't get it out of my blood now.
sec

For sure. I've loved the birds through fat and lean. I still have a fondness for Pedro Guerrero FFS. AP or no the birds on the bat is what counts to me.