"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless


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[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I heard they were going to move him to 2B because they had Freese and Carpenter to play 3B and no one to play 2B.

They're looking at moving him to 2b because his bat doesn't profile at 3b.

You look at this team and it's clear that, while LaRussa loathes 'stats guys', he and the powers that be clearly subscribe to the James 'defensive spectrum' approach whereby you place bats as far up the defensive spectrum as you can in order to 'load' your lineup, defense be damned.

Can skip play an adequate 2b? Nope, but he can play it without injuring himself and LaRussa sees his bat as an asset so under the James approach, by shifting Skip to 2b, you've improved your ballclub by opening a hole in a lesser defensive spot for an even better bat.

But the defensive spectrum approach was and is absolute horseshit and even James has conceded this point. Another routine DP blown last night because Theriot, who should only be playing 2b, has been shifted up the defensive spectrum to SS. Cox will be shifted to 2b because he's capable of not killing himself there and it opens up 3b. Berkman has been shifted to RF despite clearly only being capable of playing 1b well.

It's a complete disregard for defense in favor of jamming bats into the lineup and it's a complete jackass way to build a ballclub.

And to your 2nd question - yes, this team is still a threat to lose 90. It's a virtual mortal lock to lose 80-85, but 90 is doable for this bunch. I mean lets face it - your statement that "Boggs looks ready to close" is completely irrelevant as LaRussa has decided that Batista should be the guy. I mean it's not like Boggs is 27 or anything (actually older than Broxton, Soria, Bailey and a slew of other top shelf closers); clearly he's not ready yet.

LaRussa's the poison here and as long as he's around, this team is capable of losing 90.

[DJ's left nut]

On a side note - on my Cardinals board I put together my manifesto on how I fix the Cards and have them ready to legitimately compete in 2013.

It requires 3 moves.

Carpenter to the Yankees for Montero -
I see no reason why this isn't an incredibly fair trade for both teams, especially in light of the Yankees willingness to move Montero last season

Molina to the Red Sox for Oscar Tejada and Jed Lowrie -
Tejada's blocked by Pedrioa and not really capable of playing SS (besides, Iglesias is the future there). Lowrie's a legit SS that they have behind Scutaro for reasons unknown; he'd be a great stopgap while we wait for our next contestant to develop at SS.

Pujols to the Rangers for Moreland, Profar, Scheppers and Davis (drop Davis if necessary) -
[Once again - the Rangers would be an intriguing team to talk to at that point. I know they're high on Moreland, but if Albert waives his no trade and we make them an offer for say Scheppers, Moreland, Davis and Profar maybe that does the trick. Davis is a K machine, but he's an elite defensive 1b that is still young enough to come around, he's also a plus 3b if we give up on Freese. I am extremely high on Moreland (I see him as a mini-Votto) and he's proven capable of playing the OF. Scheppers could be a real closer of the future instead of that lunkhead Motte. Profar's a ways off, but he's a legit SS prospect.

Moreover, it doesn't hurt the Rangers at all. Moreland is replaced at 1b by Albert. Davis is in AAA right now (I think, maybe he's on their bench) as is Scheppers. Profar's below that and blocked by Andrus. It's another deal that I think is pretty reasonable and would really help both squads]. Profar's a high ceiling SS prospect that could team with Tejada in 2 years to create an elite defensive middle IF and provide solid power and speed to our interior.

Now your 'best case scenario' 2013 Birds are:

Montero - C
Davis - 1b
Tejada - 2b
Profar - SS
Freese - 3b
Moreland - RF
Rasmus - CF
Holliday - LF

And if Profar or Tejada aren't ready yet, Lowrie is a more than capable stand in at either position.

Rotation:

WW - 1
Garcia - 2
Miller - 3
Mac - 4
Lynne - 5

Bullpen is being anchored by Scheppers; the rest can be assembled on the fly. Ideally we'd bring back one or 2 more arms in either the Pujols or Molina deals, maybe an arm in lieu of Chris Davis and/or in addition to the Tejada Lowrie package.

Franklin could be moved to a contender for a relief arm as well. This makes the team younger, hungrier, deeper and with just as much talent. It also frees up a ton of $$ to make a move if it is deemed necessary.

Tough choices need to be made. Make them and we can keep winning. Refuse to close the book on the last decade and we'll be looking at the 70's Cardinals all over again.

Alas, I know which path Captain Ahab and his dipshit minion are going to take.

[Jewish Rabbi]

That's a pipe dream even with a competent GM and you know it DJ. We're not playing Xbox here.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

That's a pipe dream even with a competent GM and you know it DJ. We're not playing Xbox here.

But here's the thing - it's really not.

The Carpenter for Montero deal would go down yesterday and everyone knows it. The Yankees are desperate for the SP they missed out on and don't know what to do with Montero. That would absolutely happen and immediately free up $16 million in salary.

The Molina deal is the same animal - the Bosox would love to have Molina behind the plate. They have more than enough power to carry his bat and his glove is still top shelf. And with Pedrioa and Iglesias, they don't need Tejada or Lowrie.

And the Pujols deal would happen for the reasons below - it's a perfect fit for the Rangers.

I purposely tried to put together deals that make great sense for all sides; that filled holes and weren't unreasonable. There's no crazy shit like "I'll want Mike Trout and the Angels 3 remaining top prospects for Albert, though I'd possibly consider Strasburg and Harper for him...", if anything I sold the Cardinals a little short to make sure of that.

I mean you're right in the sense that the owners don't have the stones to take the PR hit, LaRussa doesn't have the brains to concede defeat and Mozeliak doesn't have the brass to do...well anything well, really. But these aren't 'X-Box' trades. These are deals that happen every season. Roy Oswalt meant more to Houston than Carp means to the Cards but he got moved. Teixieira isn't Albert, but he was a huge part of the Rangers ballclub and they got Feliz and Andrus for him. Molina...well he's overrated as all hell and guys better than him get traded every season.

Apart from the fact that our front office doesn't have the sack or the vision to make this happen, it absolutely should. Maybe all the prospects flame out and nothing comes of it - we're still no worse off as this team has absolutely no business paying AP $30 million.

[Frazod]

Jesus, Carp got lit up like a pinball machine tonight. Eight earned runs? ****.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by frazod

Jesus, Carp got lit up like a pinball machine tonight. Eight earned runs? ****.

and all of them were after he retired the first two outs in the inning. Been a weird game. At least the Cardinals didn't roll over and take it in the butt. They still put up 8 runs, not bad.

We lost Augestine for a while, looks like a groin.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by frazod

Jesus, Carp got lit up like a pinball machine tonight. Eight earned runs? ****.

He had absolutely no command.

If he was lucky enough to get one in the strike zone, it tended to be belt-high and centered.

The ball that Upton hit went through the concourse, into the concession area and down the damn tunnel. You'll see very few balls hit any harder than that meatball was.

Carpenter earned his ass-beating last night. He was dogshit.

And he should've been traded to the Yankees in the offseason. Hopefully their scouts missed this game.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

On a side note - on my Cardinals board I put together my manifesto on how I fix the Cards and have them ready to legitimately compete in 2013.

It requires 3 moves.



Franklin could be moved to a contender for a relief arm as well. This makes the team younger, hungrier, deeper and with just as much talent. It also frees up a ton of $$ to make a move if it is deemed necessary.

Tough choices need to be made. Make them and we can keep winning. Refuse to close the book on the last decade and we'll be looking at the 70's Cardinals all over again.

Alas, I know which path Captain Ahab and his dipshit minion are going to take.

Wait. What? You have Montero sticking at C? No, no, no, no, no...Lunacy I say.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Wait. What? You have Montero sticking at C? No, no, no, no, no...Lunacy I say.

Come on this is new to Cardinal fans.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Wait. What? You have Montero sticking at C? No, no, no, no, no...Lunacy I say.

It was a 'best case scenario'. I don't believe he'll stick there, he's just too damn big.

More likely scenario is that he replaces Albert at 1b and Moreland ends up in RF (under my trade suggestions).

And in case nobody noticed, Moreland is presently batting .333 with a .956 OPS. I loved the guy coming into the season and he's done nothing so far to dissuade me from it. With Hammy going down, he's going to move up in the order and if the Cards don't move, he may just come off the board.

[ChiefsCountry]

I don't see the Cardinal fan base supporting a youth rebuild.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

I don't see the Cardinal fan base supporting a youth rebuild.

you are correct. No friggin way.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

you are correct. No friggin way.

So you'd jump ship? To what the ****ing Royals??

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

you are correct. No friggin way.

Are you out of your mind? We need a complete overall as badly as the Herm Edwards Chiefs did. I can handle losing if it moves us in the right direction. As it stands now we just spinning our wheels and sinking deeper and deeper into LaRussa's muck.

He has to go. It won't get any better until he does.

[Jewish Rabbi]

A complete firesale, Florida Marlins type youth movement won't be tolerated. But a youth movement would be tolerated, as long as the guys hustle and play the game the right way unlike half these ****s we have now. Build the team around guys like Holiday, Wainwright, Rasmus, Freese, and you're talking.