Cardinals "Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread - Page 62

**BigRedChief** · 02:10 PM

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless

.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-20-2011, 06:39 PM

Harang is the all-upside, no-downside signing we used all the time under Jocketty, but it's only been a few starts for him, too.

Jewish Rabbi · 04-20-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Harang is the all-upside, no-downside signing we used all the time under Jocketty, but it's only been a few starts for him, too.

Right. Brad Penny was pitching great at this point last year.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-20-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Right. Brad Penny was pitching great at this point last year.

This is true. It also needs to be said that we did try this already this year, and with Mo in the past, even if he sucks dick:

Ian Snell
Matt Clement
Brad Penny

Jocketty had a number of blowups as well with that, including Wellemeyer and that fat **** Ponson.

ChiefsCountry · 04-20-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jocketty had a number of blowups as well with that, including Wellemeyer and that fat **** Ponson.

That was Jockety obession with Royals pitchers time.

DJ's left nut · 04-20-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

This is true. It also needs to be said that we did try this already this year, and with Mo in the past, even if he sucks dick:

Ian Snell
Matt Clement
Brad Penny

Jocketty had a number of blowups as well with that, including Wellemeyer and that fat **** Ponson.

Penny was the same as Westbrook - that boy got paid. That was no Jocketty move.

Clement wasn't a Jocketty move in that he'd been a season removed from his injury and was still throwing 82. It wasn't 'high upside, no downside', it was garbage in, garbage out.

Snell, OTOH, is a great example. He's a lot like a guy that Jocketty would've brought in. Then again, Jocketty had enough influence within the organization to ensure that Snell got a shot. Meanwhile, Moe - LaRussa's hand-puppet - had essentially buried Snell before the season even started. Snell barely got a sniff in ST while LaRussa was fellating himself to a 40 yr old Batista.

But the most telling are the 'blowups' you cited - Ponson and Nibblemeyer. Neither of those guys were true disasters. Wellemeyer became one, but only Mozeliak chose to give him real money. As a cheap flyer, Wellemeyer was actually quite solid for us for a season+. Ponson could've been decent but/for the fact that LaRussa hated him. I gave up all hope for LaRussa they day he publicly emasculated Ponson on the mound because Ponson had the audacity to hit a guy after the batters spent the better part of the day raping us. It was an old-school baseball move and LaRussa bawled him out on the mound for it.

There are big differences between Jocketty's 'no risk' failures and Mozeliak's insanity.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-20-2011, 08:16 PM

Penny got 3 million three years removed from being an AS starter. By no means was a Brinks truck backed up to his house.

WRT Snell: I don't think it's fair to say a guy that decided to retire in ST didn't get a fair shake. If he didn't get a fair shake, or if he wanted to try somewhere else, he could have done it. The guy was always a headcase.

FWIW, the only "high upside" guy Jocketty ever hit on was Carpenter. Williams, Suppan, and the ilk were #4 starters who were helped by transcendent offenses.

The difference between Jocketty and Mozeliak wasn't really their attempt to acquire the talent, it's when to know to let go of those players.

DJ's left nut · 04-20-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Penny got 3 million three years removed from being an AS starter. By no means was a Brinks truck backed up to his house.

WRT Snell: I don't think it's fair to say a guy that decided to retire in ST didn't get a fair shake. If he didn't get a fair shake, or if he wanted to try somewhere else, he could have done it. The guy was always a headcase.

FWIW, the only "high upside" guy Jocketty ever hit on was Carpenter. Williams, Suppan, and the ilk were #4 starters who were helped by transcendent offenses.

The difference between Jocketty and Mozeliak wasn't really their attempt to acquire the talent, it's when to know to let go of those players.

Penny got $8 million from the Cards (I believe it was $7.5 in salary and another $500K buyout).

Williams, for a couple seasons, was more of a #2 starter. Not in the mold of Carpenter last year (i.e. an elite #2) but more of your average #2. Oh wait, he didn't strike guys out. I forgot that means he just got lucky a lot...

But there were also moves like the trade for Kile (panned by most) or the trade for Stotts (overlooked by all). Getting Stephenson for nothing then getting a couple solid seasons from him. His FA signing of Bottenfield. Hell, even things like trading for Sterling Hitchcock. He gave nothing for Sterling then wasn't so stupid as to extend him for 2 seasons afterward. Hitchcock's performance was actually very similar to Westbrook's and under very similar circumstances. Jocketty knew better than to hitch a wagon to him. He extracted value from him then discarded him.

Jocketty's great strength wasn't plucking aces from the ashes. Carpenter's story is one that happens once a decade. No, his value was extracting value from the valueless. It was knowing when to cash out on players that have served their purpose. Nor was he perfect - Kip Wells and Brett Tomko were on his watch. But his aggregate record was quite stellar. He saved us millions every season not by getting Chris Carpenter for $5 million, but by getting Kyle Lohse for $1 million.

Mozeliak is more like Carl Peterson - if he 'discovered' you or otherwise acquired you and you've been even moderately productive for him, he's going to pay you lavishly and hamstring his team.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-20-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Penny got $8 million from the Cards (I believe it was $7.5 in salary and another $500K buyout).

Williams, for a couple seasons, was more of a #2 starter. Not in the mold of Carpenter last year (i.e. an elite #2) but more of your average #2. Oh wait, he didn't strike guys out. I forgot that means he just got lucky a lot...

But there were also moves like the trade for Kile (panned by most) or the trade for Stotts (overlooked by all). Getting Stephenson for nothing then getting a couple solid seasons from him. His FA signing of Bottenfield. Hell, even things like trading for Sterling Hitchcock. He gave nothing for Sterling then wasn't so stupid as to extend him for 2 seasons afterward. Hitchcock's performance was actually very similar to Westbrook's and under very similar circumstances. Jocketty knew better than to hitch a wagon to him. He extracted value from him then discarded him.

Jocketty's great strength wasn't plucking aces from the ashes. Carpenter's story is one that happens once a decade. No, his value was extracting value from the valueless. It was knowing when to cash out on players that have served their purpose. Nor was he perfect - Kip Wells and Brett Tomko were on his watch. But his aggregate record was quite stellar. He saved us millions every season not by getting Chris Carpenter for $5 million, but by getting Kyle Lohse for $1 million.

Mozeliak is more like Carl Peterson - if he 'discovered' you or otherwise acquired you and you've been even moderately productive for him, he's going to pay you lavishly and hamstring his team.

For Williams to be a #2 for more than a couple of years, he'd have to have more than one year for us where he pitched more than 110 innings and had an ERA under 4. I said nothing of his K rate, or Franklin's for that matter, so get over your butthurt.

WRT Penny, you're right that he made 7.5 last year. He's making 3 per this year, which, all things considered, is still astounding.

The rest of your post is a bunch of pointless choir preaching. I think my views on Mozeliak are well chronicled in the Halls of Hate, and there's no comparison between he and Jocketty, but Jocketty was also not the Midas that you've claimed him to be over the last year. For some reason, you've been trending more and more towards polar extremes lately, and I have no idea why.

Marcellus · 04-20-2011, 09:04 PM

The post Franklin era has begun.

Rams Fan · 04-20-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He saved us millions every season not by getting Chris Carpenter for $5 million, but by getting Kyle Lohse for $1 million.

The Lohse signing was under Mo's watch. You have to give him credit for both(the 1 year deal and the 4 year extension, with one of them being good while the other has been bad).

**BigRedChief** · 04-20-2011, 09:05 PM

Damn I love our bullpen without having to worry about Franklin blowing a lead.

Boggs throwing 94 mph slider.

Motte just throwing the heat

Salas coming in and getting it done.

And Sanchez....what a start to a career.

**BigRedChief** · 04-20-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

The post Franklin era has begun.

No friggin way Tony can go back to him with results like this.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-20-2011, 09:08 PM

God, Tony looks terrifying.

**BigRedChief** · 04-20-2011, 09:28 PM

5 teams tied for the nl central lead 18 games into the season.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-20-2011, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

5 teams tied for the nl central lead 18 games into the season.

It's a terrible ****ing division. +23 Run differential and we're .500.

Franklin

01-06-2011, 09:41 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-721038 VARSITY	"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season. Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game. We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip. We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good. Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night. Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over. The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life. When it is your team.......Priceless . Attached Thumbnails Last edited by BigRedChief; 10-29-2011 at 02:10 PM..
Posts: 81,313

04-20-2011, 06:39 PM	#916
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7169572	Harang is the all-upside, no-downside signing we used all the time under Jocketty, but it's only been a few starts for him, too. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,082

04-20-2011, 08:16 PM	#921
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7169572	Penny got 3 million three years removed from being an AS starter. By no means was a Brinks truck backed up to his house. WRT Snell: I don't think it's fair to say a guy that decided to retire in ST didn't get a fair shake. If he didn't get a fair shake, or if he wanted to try somewhere else, he could have done it. The guy was always a headcase. FWIW, the only "high upside" guy Jocketty ever hit on was Carpenter. Williams, Suppan, and the ilk were #4 starters who were helped by transcendent offenses. The difference between Jocketty and Mozeliak wasn't really their attempt to acquire the talent, it's when to know to let go of those players. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,082

04-20-2011, 09:04 PM	#924
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $-447338	The post Franklin era has begun.
Posts: 74,361

04-20-2011, 09:05 PM	#926
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-721038 VARSITY	Damn I love our bullpen without having to worry about Franklin blowing a lead. Boggs throwing 94 mph slider. Motte just throwing the heat Salas coming in and getting it done. And Sanchez....what a start to a career. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,313

04-20-2011, 09:08 PM	#928
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7169572	God, Tony looks terrifying. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,082

04-20-2011, 09:28 PM	#929
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-721038 VARSITY	5 teams tied for the nl central lead 18 games into the season. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,313