Pearl Harbor Day

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by trndobrd

Both Germany and Japan were left with the option of getting on board with the American team, or cuddling up with Uncle Joe Stalin. Beyond that, both had strong governmental infrastructure which the US largely left in place at the local level, nor were the allies shy about being an occupiers.

Vietnam needs someplace to sell shirts and soccer balls. Nike won the war.

A huge point you are missing is that these three countries did not tremendous religious/ethnic hatreds internally. They were largely homogenous and therefore the chances of internal strife greatly minimized.

The country of Iraq is just a series of lines drawn on a map in the 20s in England. Since then, it has had nothing holding it together except authoritarian rule. Tremendously fertile ground for ethnic/religious strife. Afghanistan is an area dominated by tribal rivalries.

[Rasputin]

Them damn Germans

[trndobrd]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

A huge point you are missing is that these three countries did not tremendous religious/ethnic hatreds internally. They were largely homogenous and therefore the chances of internal strife greatly minimized.

The country of Iraq is just a series of lines drawn on a map in the 20s in England. Since then, it has had nothing holding it together except authoritarian rule. Tremendously fertile ground for ethnic/religious strife. Afghanistan is an area dominated by tribal rivalries.

I'm not missing the issue of internal ethnic issues. The issue Rain Man raised was how quickly the Axis powers switched sides, not why they didn't devolve into chaos.

On the subject of internal issues, Italy and Germany both had their issues. Keep in mind, what is present day Germany had been in existance less than 100 years and had largely been held together by authoritarian rule. Had the Allies not kept the existing power structure in place, and established a strong occupation government, a power vacum would have developed similar to Iraq (Afghanistan has never had a strong central power) and attracted opportunists.

Interestingly, it was the rise of an external threat in Iraq, in the form of foreign fighters, that played a large role in turning the tide.



BTW, I wouldn't be so quick to claim that Germany didn't have tremendous internal ethnic hatreds, although it is fair to say that it was mostly resolved by 1945.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by trndobrd

I'm not missing the issue of internal ethnic issues. The issue Rain Man raised was how quickly the Axis powers switched sides, not why they didn't devolve into chaos.

They didn't switch sides. They were defeated, and chose the "side" of their occupying powers. Luckily, in the case of the West, our occupation was benevolent enough, and/or the altneratives bad enough, that our relationship continued to improve even post-occupation.

On the subject of internal issues, Italy and Germany both had their issues. Keep in mind, what is present day Germany had been in existance less than 100 years and had largely been held together by authoritarian rule. [/quote]

What is present day Germany was an area that had many long-standing historic ties but had not been formally forged together as a single socio-economic unit. Besides, 100 years is enough to survive EVERYONE. In the entire living memory of EVERYONE in the country, Germany was a single, unified country.

Had the Allies not kept the existing power structure in place, and established a strong occupation government, a power vacum would have developed similar to Iraq (Afghanistan has never had a strong central power) and attracted opportunists.

What existing power structure? The Nazis were ruthlessly and in some cases, foolishly swept out of every office high and low, even if they were nothing but bureaucrats who had become "card carrying Nazis" out of peer pressure or for simple job survival.

Senior American military officers in many instances were less than happy about this approach, but the political pressure was far too great to resist.

I'm less knowledgeable about Japan, but the military caste system was wiped out and the entire structure reorganized from the Emperor's authority on down via a new Constitution.

BTW, I wouldn't be so quick to claim that Germany didn't have tremendous internal ethnic hatreds, although it is fair to say that it was mostly resolved by 1945.

Suffice to say that Nazis evil had purged any possibility of internal strife over ethnicity by 1945.