Arrowhead anxiety: Turnover off the field causes concern

[Dr. Gigglepants]

Secrecy, intimidation, fear and a watchful eye have become hallmarks of working for the Chiefs, say some current and former employees.

BY KENT BABB THE KANSAS CITY STAR

Todd Haley walked into the public relations office at Chiefs headquarters on a Thursday in early December. Four days before he was fired as the team’s coach, he wanted to talk about what life was like inside this organization. But he didn’t know who else might be listening.

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http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/14...nover-off.html

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This article goes into a lot of detail on the changes that came into effect with the Pioli regime. Sounds like a shitty ass place to work now.

[O.city]

Zilla, I think you are a little off here. Because of your feelings that Haley can and will indeed be a good HC in the league you tend to side with him.

The Lil wayne thing wasn't leaked. It was stated on Twitter by players and by Lil wayne himself. It didn't come out until the day after, and I know guys who actually seen him there.

Do I think there is some stupid shit going on, probably. I think Haley might have lost it a little and went over the edge also.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DRU

That's not how I act at all. I'm a born and raised fan of 25 years, so believe me, I know exactly how you feel.

I still enjoy Arrowhead stadium when it's rockin, though, and we're not far from it. I'm not going to give up my tix and complain about it all the time. It's not worth it to do that.

I enjoy conversations with other fans about this team, sharing opinions about what should happen, discussing the facts about what actually does happen, and seeing it how it all plays out on the field.

Pioli has not done that bad of a job if we really step back and look at things. He pulled the trigger on a QB when he first got here because yes, he does know the QB is important. Unfortunately, it didn't work out the way he planned. Because of that, though, he's all we've got right now.

They're making more changes to try and right some wrongs. I hope just as much as anybody that QB is a position they target heavily one way or another.

Again, though, this is where all the bitterness is. The QB situation. Not the business operations. We're just looking for reasons to bitch and moan, and Babb gave it to us.

I think Pioli has done a pretty decent job with his personnel. And I think he will continue to do so. And everyone's right that if the team starts winning championships, everyone will forget this article. In my opinion, players don't really care too much about the toxicity of the front office work environment.

My concern continues to be about the future of this organization. There was already a suspicion that this was a toxic place to work, and the Haley thing probably made some coaches pause. First, I'm not excited about the Romeo hiring and I truly believe that it was the result of either or both: 1) the team being too close-minded to look outside the tree; 2) the inability to bring coaches in from the outside because they know what Haley went through. Second, I worry big time about good talent leaving our front office. Phil Emery is being approached right now for GM positions. Who knows if we'll start to see some disgruntled staff from our scouting and personnel department start to leave, in which case, I think those positions will be much more difficult to fill now that prospective candidates know what kind of a toxic work environment to expect.

So a few things I see coming. I think as this team becomes more of Romeo's, in 2 years, we're going to see Haley's disciplinary influence wear off and this team is going to start playing sloppy again. I call it Norv Turner syndrome. However, because Romeo won some games and I think he could definitely take the team to two consecutive playoffs, that could be just enough to keep Pioli's job safe for a while. After those 2 years, you expect that Romeo will near retirement. After that, I think it's going to be difficult to bring in a top-flight coaching hire, just as it was difficult for Oakland to do given their reputation. These are reasons why I think the article is important. If it's true that the environment in Arrowhead is toxic, I think we're going to see some tremendous drop-off in talent at both our personnel guys and our coaches.

[DRU]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

how did the team know what he was doing outside of work?

In today's age of mobile technology, no public figure can keep anything a secret no matter who they work for.

Some NFL players and their head coach go to the concert of a popular artist and you really think their management wouldn't find out about it whether they cared or not?

[DRU]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If it's true that the environment in Arrowhead is toxic, I think we're going to see some tremendous drop-off in talent at both our personnel guys and our coaches.

Right...IF it's true. The only one's saying it's true are people who are no longer there, and some who aren't there anymore are also saying it's not a big deal, but just what you'd expect from a regime change like they've been through before.

If it is true, then yes, I share all of your same concerns. I just don't see how so many people can let the media steer their thought process any which direction they want, whether it's about football or anything else.

Stories, quotes, etc. can be spun however people want to spin them. Some are very good at it, too.

Not sure if you saw my comment about ESPN and the UFC from an earlier post, but ESPN aired their piece about it this morning, and Dana White already posted a clip that they so conveniently left out. It's already interesting. He'll be posting their full interview footage before long. We can all probably get a good sample of what the media can do by looking at that sample.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

Zilla, I think you are a little off here. Because of your feelings that Haley can and will indeed be a good HC in the league you tend to side with him.

The Lil wayne thing wasn't leaked. It was stated on Twitter by players and by Lil wayne himself. It didn't come out until the day after, and I know guys who actually seen him there.

Do I think there is some stupid shit going on, probably. I think Haley might have lost it a little and went over the edge also.

Good point on the Lil Wayne comment. The other information leak... that's a lot more sketchy. On Haley, I recognize that both sides did some stupid stuff during his time. But I also don't think it's outside of the realm that all communications Haley made within Arrowhead's walls were monitored and, more importantly, scrutinized. Given the tremendous lengths the Chiefs allegedly went to use that sort of information to bring down Denny Thum, I wouldn't be surprised if that same sort of deal was being done to Haley.

So while we don't know the answer for sure, I think this article most definitely brings up two interesting hypotheses: 1) Haley was a paranoid schizo and grossly overreacted; 2) Haley was paranoid but the team did some over-the-top tactics most organizations do not do that drove him to that level of paranoia. I tend to think it's a little of both, but think there's enough smoke to believe there was a lot of the latter.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Good point on the Lil Wayne comment. The other information leak... that's a lot more sketchy. On Haley, I recognize that both sides did some stupid stuff during his time. But I also don't think it's outside of the realm that all communications Haley made within Arrowhead's walls were monitored and, more importantly, scrutinized. Given the tremendous lengths the Chiefs allegedly went to use that sort of information to bring down Denny Thum, I wouldn't be surprised if that same sort of deal was being done to Haley.

So while we don't know the answer for sure, I think this article most definitely brings up two interesting hypotheses: 1) Haley was a paranoid schizo and grossly overreacted; 2) Haley was paranoid but the team did some over-the-top tactics most organizations do not do that drove him to that level of paranoia. I tend to think it's a little of both, but think there's enough smoke to believe there was a lot of the latter.

I didn't mean to sound overly critical as you have brought up some great points.

I think alot of shit went wrong with Haley and there was fault on both sides. However, he's gone now and I think this is one of hte most critical offseasons the Chiefs have had in a long time.

Things could go two ways in my opinion.

They coudl bring in a great OC, great free agents, have a really good draft and be contenders in a year or two. Or they could be shitty in all phases and we are cleansing this house again in 2 years.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Laz

i said 'it will be one lame ass reason after another'

do you really need me to give you an grammar lesson about how 'lame ass' is an adjective describing the 'reasons'?

Reasons for what? What reasons?

Why don't you just admit that you look down your nose at fellow Chief fans? They're apparently not worth of your intellect, are they?

Originally Posted by Laz

I'm just not ready to cry every day in every thread about the same thing over and over again. Go back and search your posts recently ... how many can basically be summed up with "cassel sucks, damnit pioli!"? What, like 80%? They aren't the constructive,discussion type posts either ... they are the whiny, passive-aggressive-WTF-is-the-point, type posts. You're better than this.

Cassel is the #1 problem with this team. THE problem. Until he's replaced, there's nothing more to talk about. There is no hope for the future. No amount of free agent moves will amount to success. Nothing.

What would you like to discuss then?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DRU

Right...IF it's true. The only one's saying it's true are people who are no longer there, and some who aren't there anymore are also saying it's not a big deal, but just what you'd expect from a regime change like they've been through before.

If it is true, then yes, I share all of your same concerns. I just don't see how so many people can let the media steer their thought process any which direction they want, whether it's about football or anything else.

Stories, quotes, etc. can be spun however people want to spin them. Some are very good at it, too.

Not sure if you saw my comment about ESPN and the UFC from an earlier post, but ESPN aired their piece about it this morning, and Dana White already posted a clip that they so conveniently left out. It's already interesting. He'll be posting their full interview footage before long. We can all probably get a good sample of what the media can do by looking at that sample.

No, that's not true. For most of the concerns, Donovan or Farmer or a current associate admit that the stories are true. In other stories, e.g. the Denny Thum bit, he was careful to disclose that not all sources had been contacted. Even with the "tapping" of communications, he has multiple sources from Hunt to the HR person giving statements of denial that they do not know of any of that activity going on.

While the article does skew to one opinion, it is very balanced in that most issues were allowed to be addressed by the counter-party. This is more than just some one-sided argument. The Chiefs offered a counter-point to most points--it's up to the general public to decide which side they believe, but it seems to me that Babb used fair enough quotes from the counter-party to build their case in an effective way.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

I didn't mean to sound overly critical as you have brought up some great points.

I think alot of shit went wrong with Haley and there was fault on both sides. However, he's gone now and I think this is one of hte most critical offseasons the Chiefs have had in a long time.

Things could go two ways in my opinion.

They coudl bring in a great OC, great free agents, have a really good draft and be contenders in a year or two. Or they could be shitty in all phases and we are cleansing this house again in 2 years.

I think these stories might affect the OC hire. I don't think it affects our draft or personnel in the short-term. I do think there is tremendous potential that it could very negatively affect our ability to hire a future head coach and to keep/bring in good talent in the front office. So the good news is, I think at least for 2 years, this team could be very fun to watch.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DRU

Again, though, this is where all the bitterness is. The QB situation. Not the business operations. We're just looking for reasons to bitch and moan, and Babb gave it to us.

Actually, I've been talking about the business operations stuff since the day I came back, before Haley was even fired.

Because it DOES matter.

But nobody really wants to talk about it. And I never even MENTIONED Cassel in those threads.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think these stories might affect the OC hire. I don't think it affects our draft or personnel in the short-term. I do think there is tremendous potential that it could very negatively affect our ability to hire a future head coach and to keep/bring in good talent in the front office. So the good news is, I think at least for 2 years, this team could be very fun to watch.

You could be right.



Maybe I'm to naive, but I think we are getting pretty close to being serious contenders.

Overall we have built this team the way you build sustainable, competitive teams. Thru the draft.

I think this team has enough leadership to keep it on the right path, after our boyscout draft of 10, so I don't think it's gets that undisciplined.

[DRU]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think these stories might affect the OC hire. I don't think it affects our draft or personnel in the short-term. I do think there is tremendous potential that it could very negatively affect our ability to hire a future head coach and to keep/bring in good talent in the front office. So the good news is, I think at least for 2 years, this team could be very fun to watch.

For a small bit of insight on where I'm coming from with all of this, check this out.

I mentioned in a previous post about the place I used to work got raided by the FBI and the news coverage of it was completely false and misleading. Here is the actual news clip from that day. Take a look, it's only 45 seconds.



After watching that, let me now tell you the facts in order of what they had wrong (which was nearly everything.)

- DealExpress does not have 8 locations. They have 1 single location.

- They were not investigating pirated product, but rather counterfeit product. While similar, these things are different and the misuse of terminology can drastically effect ones view of the story.

- It didn't have anything to do with general electronics like TVs or stereo's at all. It was Cisco networking equipment that was being questioned.

- The 50+ FBI agents (that part was actually accurate) found 3 small, empty Cisco boxes which were proven to be legit and came from Cisco themselves. You can actually see the guy carrying these 3 boxes onto a truck at the end of the clip when the guy says "agents loaded up rental trucks with evidence" as if they had truck loads of stuff. Nope, just 3 small, legit boxes.

Rather than report about how much of a waste of tax payer money it was having 50+ FBI agents raid this place, and rather than provide ANY of the information that we employees gave them which completely negated everything they were trying to dig up (at 24 seconds you'll see me in the background getting interviewed by an FBI agent), they proceeded to fabricate this entire story because eBay fraud was a hot topic at the time.

This was the day I decided I would never take anything from the media seriously again.

Now, that was a long example of why I do NOT think this will effect our future coaching hires. These coaches and people in the NFL in general live this type of thing every single day with the media. They see first hand how full of shit the media is all the time, and I highly doubt they would ever allow it to weigh on their minds during an important decision they're making about their own lives.

[O.city]

This did make the Rumor part of ESPN so it's getting out there.


I think either way it's win win.

Either things are changed or things suck and Pioli is fired.

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by Jerm

I would KILL for a Haley sit down, tell all interview right about now.

Would you kill Pioli though?

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by O.city

We all wanted things to change when Peterson was the GM.

Clean house, change the environment, bring in new blood we all wanted.

Now it has happened and we all bitch. Pioli is taking it over the edge to far of course, but this franchise needed a good cleansing. 40 plus years of mediocrity really stains things.

I think it's bullshit going to the extent that they are about stupid shit, when they should be more focused on putting a winning product on the field. I think they have done a good job building up that product and keeping good young talent around, they are just a few pieces away.

We on Cp tend to be overly critical and demanding. Which is why I love this place so much. I consider most on here to be some of the most die hard Chiefs fans. However some times I think we don't really look at the whole picture objectively.

I could care less how the things are run at Arrowhead if they put a championship product on the field. I think if we get the three superstars back from injury next year we are close to doing that.

IMO we are a few pieces away from being legit contenders. This article could be the piece that makes those incharge realize that it's time to be bold.

Sorry for the rambling, just my .02 cents.

I have no problem with Fat Scott making drastic changes to the organization... it was long overdue.

The problem is in wins/losses.

The Chiefs are 21-28 under Fat Scott.

The Chiefs could turn their organization into North Korea and if they were winning I could care less.