Other Sports Ryan Braun tests positive for PED - Page 18

**Buck** · 12-10-2011, 06:47 PM

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...enhancing-drug

He's facing a 50 game suspension.

TheGuardian · 02-24-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

From what I know that 3rd party arbitrator was a moran. They found synthetic test in his 2nd sample and there are all kinds of drugs that will reduce estrogen while taking testosterone. Using a TE ratio to undermine the results is laughable and I see why the MLB is irate.

I'd be interested to know what his total T level was.

Yup. Truth is, that's all you really need to look at. Just establish a baseline that your total T levels can't exceed X amount. If they do, have them take a more advanced screening to see if that is just normal for that person. There are some dudes walking around with very high levels of test, naturally. However if you're rocking out 1800-1900 for total T you're using something.

**alnorth** · 02-24-2012, 09:24 AM

I also read that it probably wasn't just a pee test divided into 2 samples, its more comprehensive than that, and he probably failed a series of tests. The last test was likely a sophisticated blood test.

All of those tests have false positive rates, but to coincidentally get a false positive on all of them is 1 in millions lottery type of odds.

BigCatDaddy · 02-24-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Yup. Truth is, that's all you really need to look at. Just establish a baseline that your total T levels can't exceed X amount. If they do, have them take a more advanced screening to see if that is just normal for that person. There are some dudes walking around with very high levels of test, naturally. However if you're rocking out 1800-1900 for total T you're using something.

I don't know this is physiologically possible, but I know a guy that was getting Dr prescribed test cyp and taking 300-400mg per week and was still testing at like 350-400. They had no explanation of where the hell it was going.

vailpass · 02-24-2012, 10:43 AM

Ryan Braun, your 2011 MVP, cleared of doping charges.
Love it.

BigCatDaddy · 02-24-2012, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

Ryan Braun, your 2011 MVP, cleared of doping charges.
Love it.

It will interesting to see his 2012 numbers.

vailpass · 02-24-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

It will interesting to see his 2012 numbers.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...raunry02.shtml

I don't see anything unusual about his 2011 numbers. Maybe someone sees something I'm missing?

Mr. Laz · 02-24-2012, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

Ryan Braun, your 2011 MVP, cleared of doping charges.
Love it.

he wasn't really cleared, was he?

'got off on a technicality' would be more accurate, wouldn't it?

chain of evidence problem .....

BigCatDaddy · 02-24-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...raunry02.shtml

I don't see anything unusual about his 2011 numbers. Maybe someone sees something I'm missing?

I'm just saying now that he was basically busted for cheating if will be interesting to see if his numbers will decline or was the test taken sometime other then after the 11 season?

vailpass · 02-24-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I'm just saying now that he was basically busted for cheating if will be interesting to see if his numbers will decline or was the test taken sometime other then after the 11 season?

I see what you are saying. A decline from an MVP year isn't necessarily proof someone was doping.

My point was that his numbers didn't dramatically spike upwards in 2011, something usually associated with the onset of PED use. Guy has been putting up steadily nice numbers his whole career.
That, and his hat size didn't enter the Bonds Zone.

vailpass · 02-24-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

he wasn't really cleared, was he?

'got off on a technicality' would be more accurate, wouldn't it?

chain of evidence problem .....

I was going by the press, Google "Ryan Braun cleared"

Frazod · 02-24-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

he wasn't really cleared, was he?

'got off on a technicality' would be more accurate, wouldn't it?

chain of evidence problem .....

I think he's going to carry this turd with him forever. It will be interesting to see how he responds to the negative attention.

Oh, and **** the Brewers.

BigCatDaddy · 02-24-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

I see what you are saying. A decline from an MVP year isn't necessarily proof someone was doping.

My point was that his numbers didn't dramatically spike upwards in 2011, something usually associated with the onset of PED use. Guy has been putting up steadily nice numbers his whole career.
That, and his hat size didn't enter the Bonds Zone.

Right, but who is to say how long he has been using. I'm assuming it's not a recent phenomenon. If he has taking some moderate dosed test with an AI you aren't going to see a lot of dramatic changes. 200mg per week which is a high TRT dose, but 1/2 a beginners body building dose over months and years will still yield performancing enhancing effects. That's why I'm just curious as to what his Total T level was more then his Test to Estrogen ratio which tells you nothing.

Edit
It looks like it's Testosterone to Epitestosterone levels not estrogen that is checked.

I would still like to know the total T number though.

If his TE Ratio was 4-1 then he likely had T levels at about 2000. That's probably having 300-400 mg of test in his body. That doesn't seem that crazy to me, but I'm no expert.

**alnorth** · 02-24-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

If his TE Ratio was 4-1 then he likely had T levels at about 2000. That's probably having 300-400 mg of test in his body. That doesn't seem that crazy to me, but I'm no expert.

His "insanely high" TE ratio was 20-1. From what I've read, its pretty high and you don't see it often, but it is not an impossible ratio at all.

BigCatDaddy · 02-24-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

His "insanely high" TE ratio was 20-1. From what I've read, its pretty high and you don't see it often, but it is not an impossible ratio at all.

Yeah, I found this little nugget. Basically if you are over 1100NG you are probably using synthetic test. The average male being about 400-500.

However, there’s a little twist to the story! Various studies reveal serious weaknesses in the T/E ratio test used by various anti-doping organizations as a biomarker. One of the reports published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism successfully argues that the production of TG from testosterone is primarily controlled by an enzyme (UGT2B17) produced by a specific gene that has many common variants coding for enzymatic variants with different levels of activity. So, wildly different testing results can be expected with the intake of same doses of testosterone! In lieu of this, the validity of T/E based testing has widely been debated and alternate methods of hormone testing have been suggested.

Read more: http://www.testcountry.org/how-stero...#ixzz1nKW9foWu

mnchiefsguy · 02-24-2012, 03:01 PM

According to this ESPN article:

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/s...b-drug-testing

The sample was in a tupperware container and sat on the collector's desk for the entire weekend. Turns out there were 12 FedEx locations open at the time, so it sounds like the collector royally screwed the pooch on this one.

I think he was taking something. I also think that the sloppy chain of possession opened the door to reasonable doubt (to use a court term).

Apparently the collective bargaining agreement is very anal about how these samples are to be collected and tested, so it is up to the collection agency to meet those standards. If they fail to do so, the MLB should not be surprised when the system lets a player off the hook.

12-10-2011, 06:47 PM
Buck Take a Chill Pill Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Carolina Casino cash: $7649900	Ryan Braun tests positive for PED http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...enhancing-drug He's facing a 50 game suspension.
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02-24-2012, 09:24 AM	#257
alnorth . Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $57156239	I also read that it probably wasn't just a pee test divided into 2 samples, its more comprehensive than that, and he probably failed a series of tests. The last test was likely a sophisticated blood test. All of those tests have false positive rates, but to coincidentally get a false positive on all of them is 1 in millions lottery type of odds. __________________ how many emo kids does it take to change a lightbulb? HOW MANY?! none they just sit in the dark and cry
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02-24-2012, 10:43 AM	#259
vailpass Psycho Bag Of Squanch Join Date: Sep 2001 Casino cash: $9594244	Ryan Braun, your 2011 MVP, cleared of doping charges. Love it. __________________ “Education is a weapon whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” Joseph Stalin
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02-24-2012, 03:01 PM	#270
mnchiefsguy MVP Join Date: Dec 2003 Casino cash: $2376206	According to this ESPN article: http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/s...b-drug-testing The sample was in a tupperware container and sat on the collector's desk for the entire weekend. Turns out there were 12 FedEx locations open at the time, so it sounds like the collector royally screwed the pooch on this one. I think he was taking something. I also think that the sloppy chain of possession opened the door to reasonable doubt (to use a court term). Apparently the collective bargaining agreement is very anal about how these samples are to be collected and tested, so it is up to the collection agency to meet those standards. If they fail to do so, the MLB should not be surprised when the system lets a player off the hook.
Posts: 10,249