2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[alnorth]

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:



Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

[RockChalk]

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Steve Berthiaume ‏@SBerthiaumeESPN

#Royals will have Jonathan Sanchez back tonight. RHP Louis Coleman sent to Omaha.

Can't wait for our rotation to set up a deadly back-to-back combo of Sanchez-Hochevar.

[SnakeXJones]

Originally Posted by RockChalk

Can't wait for our rotation to set up a deadly back-to-back combo of Sanchez-Hochevar.

[gblowfish]

I didn't see if anybody posted Jeff Passan's article on Greinke from last night. Apologies if re-post:

Greinke admits he was bad guy in Royals saga

By Jeff Passan | Yahoo! Sports

KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Nobody does honest like Zack Greinke. Because modern athletes have conditioned us to expect canned analysis, hollow words and cadaverous personalities, there is something so satisfying in somebody unburdened by what others might think. Greinke's specific brand of truth is cold and unfiltered, nothing sacred, be it cows, people or even himself.

Greinke placed Greinke under a microscope Tuesday night. He had just thrown seven brilliant innings for the Milwaukee Brewers in a 2-1 loss to the Kansas City Royals, the team he forced to trade him less than two years earlier. It was his return to the city he disowned. Rather than avoid his dirty deed – the trade request in baseball is the domain of those considered spoiled and Derek Bell's brilliant Operation Shutdown – Greinke addressed it with searing forthrightness, especially for someone who could have a nine-figure payday awaiting him once he hits free agency this offseason.

Zack Greinke served one up to Royals leadoff hitter Alex Gordon. (Getty Images)"I was pretty rude on the way out," he said. "I felt like I had to in order to get out. I didn't want to have to be the bad guy, but I felt like I had to be. I liked it here. The fans were great. I don't know how so many of them come to the games when they've been bad for so long, but it's pretty impressive."

The whole thing was so positively Greinke. His admission that he was the bad guy, threatening not to play for the franchise that drafted him, nurtured him through a social-anxiety disorder that led to almost a year away from the game and watched him blossom into a Cy Young winner. His praising the fans, many of whom booed him on Tuesday. And his inclusion of a little shot to go, the nod-and-wink sort in which Greinke specializes because his droll delivery masks a wicked sense of humor.

There are other truths about Greinke, ones he'll have to confront as he enters the final two-thirds of perhaps the biggest season of his career.

Truth No. 1: With an eight-strikeout, zero-walk performance against the Royals, Greinke's 89 Ks are more than anyone in the National League but Stephen Strasburg (who's up by three) and Gio Gonzalez (with whom he is tied). It's an embodiment of his raw ability, his harnessing it and his relentlessness, which occasionally can misplace itself via diarrhea of the mouth.

Among that, his time away, his forcing of the trade and his affect, which has been called everything from bored to disinterested to aloof, Greinke has grown the sort of reputation that chases him even if it's unfair. And that leads directly to …

Truth No. 2: Plenty of executives worry about Greinke's ability to adjust to the big city, the media crush, the hype and the general awful treatment promised a star who makes eight figures annually. This is a silly claim, one borne of stereotypes extrapolated and designed to limit his marketplace.

Greinke would play anywhere. Check that: Anywhere with a team that has a pulse. What he did was simultaneously weasely and brave. He ditched his teammates … and he refused to play anymore for a woebegone franchise. He quit … and he demanded a winner. Yes, he stunk last postseason. Another shot, he figures, and he'll get it right.

So unless the Brewers pony up – and there's no sign at this point that they're inclined to do so, especially as they lollygag below .500 – Greinke may again find himself traded before getting to choose where he wants to go. And at 29, he'll do so at an optimal time.

Greinke wouldn't set his criteria. He's not thinking about that, he said, not with the season still going on, even if the end game is $125 million. He's got the type of pedigree and stuff and health to fetch that, too. For only two years of Greinke, the Royals received Alcides Escobar, Jake Odorizzi, Lorenzo Cain and Jeremy Jeffress, respectively their shortstop, top pitching prospect, center fielder and hardest thrower. It was the rare double success, one both teams would consummate again, and it says how much the Brewers think of Greinke and his 2.96 ERA with peripherals to match.

Royals fans used to. In 2009, when Greinke won his Cy Young, he would practically sell out Kauffman Stadium. It was stunning – the revitalization of baseball in a city that long ago gave up hope. Too many guys had left. Carlos Beltran and Johnny Damon and Jermaine Dye, and that was just one outfield.

Greinke scanned Kauffman Stadium to see if anyone still wore his jersey. And much to his surprise, the Greinke 13 might have been the most popular there. They liked him even more when he fed the leadoff hitter, Alex Gordon, a fat 3-2 fastball that landed more than 430 feet later in a fountain and staked the Royals the only run they needed most of the night.

Greinke was flashing Cy Young stuff with the Royals in 2009. (Getty Images)Eventually they scratched across another, but it was a struggle, like so many things with Kansas City's offense. And there's where Greinke was telling the truth: Of course it's brutal living with loss after loss. Baseball myopia can condition players to accept it, but Greinke never did, and here the Royals are, almost a half-decade into their plan, still unable to even reach .500.

"It's not like it's just gonna happen because they have a bunch of good young players," Greinke said. "It has to be done consistently and done thoughtfully, and even then it's still not guaranteed."

There was a tinge of sympathy and resignation to Greinke's mock-GMing: It can be done, it's just really hard. And more than anything, that answered the question on which so many wanted him to bite: Would you come back here to play? There are limits to Greinke's truth, apparently, because he woudn't exactly say. So why not do it for him?

Truth No. 3: Zack Greinke isn't coming back to Kansas City, in part because the Royals may or may not be any closer to a championship than they were when he asked out, and similarly because what the hell sort of an organization would spend more than $100 million on a guy it saw quit, no matter how bad he feels about it?

That, and the Valhalla in which the Royals extend their payroll to include a nine-figure guy, make this discussion nothing more than "Fifty Shades of Grey" for a starving Kansas City baseball fan. Still, it was interesting to note that Greinke and Royals GM Dayton Moore crossed paths Tuesday and chatted for about 10 minutes.

Greinke asked questions about the current state of the team, and it wasn't just him engaging in pleasantries. He doesn't do that. His curiosity was genuine, like he cared. A little guilt? A little sadness? Probably not. Even if he does still own a house here, even if he wants to know about this team, he was the bad guy, and almost two years later, that truth hurts as much as any.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Thanks for posting that blowfish.

[Cephalic Trauma]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I'm not sure how that has anything to do with helping his development as a player.

Misread your post, but the point still stands.

[SithCeNtZ]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No clue, but I was thinking about Starling in light of Rany's recent comments about Bryce Harper.

I would be more than willing to trade Starling and Zimmer right now for proven, young talent. If we could turn back the clock, it would absolutely by a mistake not to move the likes of Montgomery, Dwyer, Duffy, and Lamb.

Trade one. Trade all. Doesn't matter. This incessant infatuation with prospects is absolutely ridiculous. We could have packaged two of the above pitchers + ancillary pieces to acquire a legit ML starter. Create two packages and get two high-quality pitchers back.

And the dynamic of the team is completely different, as well as our realistic hope for the future.

I don't disagree with you in theory, but in actual practice I don't think this is possible. It's not like there are 10 teams with 25 year old cy young winners just waiting around to be traded. If you look at trades for pitchers that you can control for more than 2 years, the royals would likely have to assume just as much risk in the player they get as they do sitting and hoping the prospects turn out. Guys that get traded usually have big red flags like Jimenez and Pineda, not sure things.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No clue, but I was thinking about Starling in light of Rany's recent comments about Bryce Harper.

I would be more than willing to trade Starling and Zimmer right now for proven, young talent. If we could turn back the clock, it would absolutely by a mistake not to move the likes of Montgomery, Dwyer, Duffy, and Lamb.

Trade one. Trade all. Doesn't matter. This incessant infatuation with prospects is absolutely ridiculous. We could have packaged two of the above pitchers + ancillary pieces to acquire a legit ML starter. Create two packages and get two high-quality pitchers back.

And the dynamic of the team is completely different, as well as our realistic hope for the future.

I'll mention that I still think Duffy and Lamb are the "wins" out of that group, long-term. And are key rotation pieces for KC.

But I won't argue that the Royals need to be more aggressive with trades now that MOST of the first wave of talent is in KC.

They are going to need some young position players and young pitchers down the road (to replace guys that leave in FA). But I look at guys like Cuthbert (who is struggling mightily in full season ball in a bad hitter's environment at a young age), Adam, Ventura, Bonifacio as a tradeable currency.

If you can build a package around those guys (Ventura and Bonifacio?) that can net at least a solid No. 3 MLB starter, I say "do it."

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by SithCeNtZ

I don't disagree with you in theory, but in actual practice I don't think this is possible. It's not like there are 10 teams with 25 year old cy young winners just waiting around to be traded. If you look at trades for pitchers that you can control for more than 2 years, the royals would likely have to assume just as much risk in the player they get as they do sitting and hoping the prospects turn out. Guys that get traded usually have big red flags like Jimenez and Pineda, not sure things.

Your point is well taken.

I think what the struggles of our pitchers on the farm have reaffirmed, though, is that pitching prospects are exponentially more risky than someone with some background of ML success. All pitchers are going to get hurt, so in some ways it's a guessing game as to how long one has until the bomb blows up.

But rather than taking educated, logical guesses (if such a thing exists), the Royals seem content to buy scratch-off ticket after scratch-off ticket from the pitcher lottery, screaming, "This one HAS to be it! Don't touch my ****ing tickets!"

It's aggravating as shit.

[SAUTO]

I am good with moving anyone in the minors except Myers and Odoreasy.

I would even to be willing to seemingly overpay. At this point I would take a ****ing and smile the whole time if it netted us a no.one cy young winner type.

Other than those two.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Kyle DeLexus]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Your point is well taken.

I think what the struggles of our pitchers on the farm have reaffirmed, though, is that pitching prospects are exponentially more risky than someone with some background of ML success. All pitchers are going to get hurt, so in some ways it's a guessing game as to how long one has until the bomb blows up.

But rather than taking educated, logical guesses (if such a thing exists), the Royals seem content to buy scratch-off ticket after scratch-off ticket from the pitcher lottery, screaming, "This one HAS to be it! Don't touch my ****ing tickets!"

It's aggravating as shit.

You know Moore would just throw prospects at Jair Jurrjens though right?

[Ceej]

I vote kstater starts tonight's game thread.

If he doesn't..



BAN!

[KevB]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Your point is well taken.

I think what the struggles of our pitchers on the farm have reaffirmed, though, is that pitching prospects are exponentially more risky than someone with some background of ML success. All pitchers are going to get hurt, so in some ways it's a guessing game as to how long one has until the bomb blows up.

But rather than taking educated, logical guesses (if such a thing exists), the Royals seem content to buy scratch-off ticket after scratch-off ticket from the pitcher lottery, screaming, "This one HAS to be it! Don't touch my ****ing tickets!"

It's aggravating as shit.

More succinctly, TINSTAAPP - There is no such thing as a pitching prospect

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

I am good with moving anyone in the minors except Myers and Odoreasy.

I would even to be willing to seemingly overpay. At this point I would take a ****ing and smile the whole time if it netted us a no.one cy young winner type.

Other than those two.
Posted via Mobile Device

Given their proximity to the ML and potential upside, I would agree. Now is the perfect time, however, to move a Zimmer or Starling; no one has seen them fail, and thus both are relatively unblemished.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Given their proximity to the ML and potential upside, I would agree. Now is the perfect time, however, to move a Zimmer or Starling; no one has seen them fail, and thus both are relatively unblemished.

Starling could be moved. Zimmer can't be traded until a year after the draft.

I'd be fine with including Starling in a package, as I think they have several guys of that ilk (Starling, Jorge Bonifacio, Elier Hernandez) at similar levels of the system.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Starling could be moved. Zimmer can't be traded until a year after the draft.

I'd be fine with including Starling in a package, as I think they have several guys of that ilk (Starling, Jorge Bonifacio, Elier Hernandez) at similar levels of the system.

Absolutely. Important distinction about Zimmer that I should have made more clear.

Some of MLB's rules about the draft (no trading picks, etc.) are archaic.