KK wrong about success of ASG

[KingPriest2]

Remember when we were awarded the ASG and KK said that KC will be a embarrassment? Then last summer a article in SI had a player talking about coming here and some players weren't sure. KK took off with that as ammo saying we shouldn't host the game?

Now he s saying that he expected it

[Dayze]

I just don't like how the interior looks. (ATT)

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by blaise

There's nothing wrong with the actual stadium in KC. I've been to 5 or 6 and once you're inside it's just as good as any as far as I'm concerned. I like the renovations.

The stadium is very nice.

[Dartgod]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Tell me what blows you away. Is it the two little sports bars that have no seating and rent out the decks so that most fans can never actually utilize them? Is it the playground? Is it the luxury boxes?

I'll grant you that the scoreboard is cool, but the renovations cost $250,000,000. That's more than the entire franchise was valued at prior to the renovation.

That money isn't providing value to the city. It simply increased David Glass's net worth on the backs of the taxpayers. Maybe he'll spend some of that money in Arkansas where he lives and boost their economy.

Just about everything blows me away. I couldn't care less about some of the kiddie things since I don't have children, but everything else is top notch.

Now where's that link?

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

I'm not miserable about it at all. I love going to games. I would just like to go to more of them and have something to do before and afterwards.

This city spent tens of millions on an entertainment district only to dump hundreds of millions into a stadium in a dead area and got next to nothing to show for it.

There was no significant boost in attendance at Kaufman. Nobody is blown away by how much better the stadium got.

Instead of combining the entertainment district and the stadium, Kansas City made yet another shortsighted decision. As a result, the district can't pay the note, and the Royals are at the bottom in attendance yet again.

There's nothing charming about a failing entertainment district and an empty stadium. Green Bay is charming. Kaufman on a Tuesday is just depressing.

I talk about this because the city needs to get it right next time, whatever "it" may be. Remember that soccer stadium that was going to replace Bannister Mall? What was that, five years ago? Last I saw, that vacant mall is still there, but Overland Park built the nicest soccer complex in the country. Meanwhile, Cerner (you know, the company with it's world headquarters a block from Bannister Mall) built one of the nicest soccer stadiums in the country over in Kansas.

This City could fall into a big of tits and come out with a dick in it's mouth, and it upsets me because I've lived here my entire life, and I love this town.

The bolded section is drawing some conclusions that it shouldn't. You've spend all thread unsuccessfully arguing that the Royals would receive increased attendance if they played downtown, so no, there isn't causation ("as a result") just because you say there is. But more importantly, there isn't any causation between the Power & Light District's failures and the lack of a major sports presence downtown. P&L is failing for a variety of reasons related to developer tax breaks, Cordish & KCMO not working together well, and the insane cost of rent for businesses. Sprint Center is a huge concert draw, one the world's best performing concert venues, and it brings a lot of people downtown. Drawing people to P&L isn't the problem.

[Rams Fan]

I guess no one goes to Phillies, Flyers, 76ers or Eagles games since these stadiums aren't in downtown:

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I guess no one goes to Phillies, Flyers, 76ers or Eagles games since these stadiums aren't in downtown:

I've been there. The ballpark is cool, but it's a ****ing hike to get to and from the game. Of course, most everything in Philadelphia sucks, so you aren't missing much other than a rub and tug.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I guess no one goes to Phillies, Flyers, 76ers or Eagles games since these stadiums aren't in downtown:

The Giants and Devils play in a swamp.

The Cowboys and Rangers are 20 miles from downtown.

The Patriots play in the middle of nowhere.

No attendance issues.

The whole argument is retatrded

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

The bolded section is drawing some conclusions that it shouldn't. You've spend all thread unsuccessfully arguing that the Royals would receive increased attendance if they played downtown, so no, there isn't causation ("as a result") just because you say there is. But more importantly, there isn't any causation between the Power & Light District's failures and the lack of a major sports presence downtown. P&L is failing for a variety of reasons related to developer tax breaks, Cordish & KCMO not working together well, and the insane cost of rent for businesses. Sprint Center is a huge concert draw, one the world's best performing concert venues, and it brings a lot of people downtown. Drawing people to P&L isn't the problem.

Power and Light is dead during most weeknights. It absolutely suffers from lack of attendance.

As far as attendance goes, that is only a small piece of my larger point. Someone earlier suggested an increase of only 3,000, which is probably about right, although I think it underestimates the number of corporate season ticket packages that would be sold.

The larger point is the economic impact on the surrounding area. What did Jackson get for the money?

I know what David Glass got. The value of his team increased, and he gets luxury suites to sell.

Meanwhile, nobody is going to shop at a store near the stadium while they kill time waiting for the game to start. Nobody is going to eat at a restaurant near the stadium before they go to the game. Nobody is meeting up for drinks afterwards, not near the stadium, anyway.

If I buy hamburgers and cook them in the parking lot, that makes no economic impact that wouldn't have been achieved by cooking them at home. Truth is, I probably bought those burgers from Hen House outside of Jackson County either way.

If I go to a concert on a Friday night at the Sprint Center, I probably go straight from work, eat at a restaurant near there, go to the concert, and maybe hit up P&L for some drinks afterwards if my old ass isn't too tired from arguing on the internet all day.

If I go to a Royals game on a Friday night, I go home for an hour or so (I work in OP) and either eat at home or grab something on the way. I spend zero dollars in Jackson County that aren't directly related to the game. How does that help recoup the investment?

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

The Giants and Devils play in a swamp.

The Cowboys and Rangers are 20 miles from downtown.

The Patriots play in the middle of nowhere.

No attendance issues.

The whole argument is retatrded

This argument is unique to baseball, and only one team you listed plays baseball...and they have been to consecutive World Series.

[Dayze]

did KCMO/Jackson Co get fleeced on teh Arrohead/K deal? Opinions (i don't have a dog in the figh, but lean towards they did)

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

This argument is unique to baseball, and only one team you listed plays baseball...and they have been to consecutive World Series.

They've only had 7 seasons where they've averaged under 30,000 a game for the 18 seasons that park has been open.

Only once under 25,000.

The Series has nothing to do with it.

You can whine and cry and stomp your feet all you want, but $250M was just spent on the K - you're looking at 10-15 years minimum before your dream of a downtown ballpark is even possible.

By then, you'll be an adult, and your priority likely won't be looking for somewhere to get ****ed up before or after the game.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Power and Light is dead during most weeknights. It absolutely suffers from lack of attendance.

As far as attendance goes, that is only a small piece of my larger point. Someone earlier suggested an increase of only 3,000, which is probably about right, although I think it underestimates the number of corporate season ticket packages that would be sold.

The larger point is the economic impact on the surrounding area. What did Jackson get for the money?

I know what David Glass got. The value of his team increased, and he gets luxury suites to sell.

Meanwhile, nobody is going to shop at a store near the stadium while they kill time waiting for the game to start. Nobody is going to eat at a restaurant near the stadium before they go to the game. Nobody is meeting up for drinks afterwards, not near the stadium, anyway.

If I buy hamburgers and cook them in the parking lot, that makes no economic impact that wouldn't have been achieved by cooking them at home. Truth is, I probably bought those burgers from Hen House outside of Jackson County either way.

If I go to a concert on a Friday night at the Sprint Center, I probably go straight from work, eat at a restaurant near there, go to the concert, and maybe hit up P&L for some drinks afterwards if my old ass isn't too tired from arguing on the internet all day.

If I go to a Royals game on a Friday night, I go home for an hour or so (I work in OP) and either eat at home or grab something on the way. I spend zero dollars in Jackson County that aren't directly related to the game. How does that help recoup the investment?

You make some valid points Saul but P&L was built along with the Sprint Center because the thought was they were guaranteed a NHL or NBA team. Neither has happened and probably won't for the foreseeable future.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

You make some valid points Saul but P&L was built along with the Sprint Center because the thought was they were guaranteed a NHL or NBA team. Neither has happened and probably won't for the foreseeable future.

True. That is yet another black eye for our city planning. I don't get too caught up in that one for the reason Reaper mentioned earlier. The Sprint Center is more than pulling it's own weight even without a team. That said, it's not what the taxpayers were promised nor wanted.

It's a waste that all this money was dumped into these grandiose ventures, yet they do so little to complement one another.

The greater KC area has some of the best facilities in the country, but they are all over the place.

You have the renovated stadiums out at Raytown Road and the Blue Ridge Cutoff. You have the Sprint Center downtown, you have Livestrong and Community America in Wyandotte, you have the soccer complex in Overland Park, and you have the Hockey arena in Independence.

I look at what has been done on the west side of State Line, and I see a vision. I look east, and I'm not sure what I see.

It isn't that difficult to envision a scenario in which Kansas City would have the Sprint center where it currently sits, Kaufman Stadium where the new performing arts center is, Livestrong and the soccer complex where Bannister Mall was, the Independence Events Center where it currently sits, a renovated Arrowhead where it currently sits, and the NASCAR track right next to it along with the casinos, restaurants, shopping, etc. that went along with it.

Every one of those things were proposed, and every one of them got done. It's just that a lot of them got done at other locations to the detriment of Jackson County.

I'm not pissed about it. What's done is done, but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and ignore it so that when the next great opportunity knocks we shit the bed again because we refuse to acknowledge past mistakes and learn from them.

[Old Dog]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

This is an insane argument. I can't believe I am not involved.

It's OK, Saul has put enough stupidity in it for both of you



(and considering all of the ground the two of you normally cover in that aspect, that's really saying something)

[Raiderhater]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Power and Light is dead during most weeknights. It absolutely suffers from lack of attendance.

As far as attendance goes, that is only a small piece of my larger point. Someone earlier suggested an increase of only 3,000, which is probably about right, although I think it underestimates the number of corporate season ticket packages that would be sold.

The larger point is the economic impact on the surrounding area. What did Jackson get for the money?

I know what David Glass got. The value of his team increased, and he gets luxury suites to sell.

Meanwhile, nobody is going to shop at a store near the stadium while they kill time waiting for the game to start. Nobody is going to eat at a restaurant near the stadium before they go to the game. Nobody is meeting up for drinks afterwards, not near the stadium, anyway.

If I buy hamburgers and cook them in the parking lot, that makes no economic impact that wouldn't have been achieved by cooking them at home. Truth is, I probably bought those burgers from Hen House outside of Jackson County either way.

If I go to a concert on a Friday night at the Sprint Center, I probably go straight from work, eat at a restaurant near there, go to the concert, and maybe hit up P&L for some drinks afterwards if my old ass isn't too tired from arguing on the internet all day.

If I go to a Royals game on a Friday night, I go home for an hour or so (I work in OP) and either eat at home or grab something on the way. I spend zero dollars in Jackson County that aren't directly related to the game. How does that help recoup the investment?

How many times is your larger point going to change? Because attendance was most certainly your larger point at the beginning of all this.