Should Penn State Get the Death Penalty?

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Laz

so you don't think Kentucky should be punished for recruiting violations etc when Calipari gets caught again and then just bails. I mean Calipari is the guilty one so if he buys Kentucky 2/3 championships and leaves ... it's all good?!?1

Every school can just do whatever they want and then fire the coaches and move on without penalty ...

Worldwide Wes break out your check book!

I think it's safe to say that Kentucky, as a whole, wanted to win.

I don't think it's safe to say that Penn State, as a whole, wanted to **** little boys.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by frazod

I think it's safe to say that Kentucky, as a whole, wanted to win.

I don't think it's safe to say that Penn State, as a whole, wanted to **** little boys.

happened in the school
by school employee
covered up by more school employees for 14 years
president,vice present,athletic director,head coach

seriously ... how much more "school" can you have involved?

or is it intent?

if the entire school didn't intend to cheat to win only Calipari intended to cheat to win?


and let's not just throw away the whole 'principal and example issue' some people just want to ignore

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Laz

happened in the school
by school employee
covered up by more school employees for 14 years
president,vice present,athletic director,head coach

seriously ... how much more "school" can you have involved

or is it intent?

if the entire school didn't intend to cheat to win only Calipari intended to cheat to win

How the hell do you equate these two things? Cheating to win games and raping children? How do they even belong in the same discussion?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Laz

happened in the school
by school employee
covered up by more school employees for 14 years
president,vice present,athletic director,head coach

seriously ... how much more "school" can you have involved?

or is it intent?

if the entire school didn't intend to cheat to win only Calipari intended to cheat to win?


and let's not just throw away the whole 'principal and example issue' some people just want to ignore

And seriously, how much punishment do you need to create before you say that's enough? If you look at this emotionally, there is no punishment good enough for the sick shit that they enabled. But legal punishments aren't built on emotion. They're built on rationality. And the punishments that are going to happen are extremely harsh and they absolutely will set an example. I can guarantee you Penn State is going to clean their compliance department up and over-comply from here on out. And I can guarantee you other Universities are taking note. And the amount of money and PR hit they'll take from this isn't small potatoes.

But again, from an "example" standpoint, it's laughable to believe that the death penalty sets an example to other college programs. All the death penalty says is that poor behavior isn't poor behavior unless you get caught. Teams are still going to cheat. They are still going to run shoddy compliance programs. The NCAA needs to stop trying to make examples of those they catch and instead work on getting more consistent enforcement of the rules. It makes a joke out of the system if a team like USC or Penn State is flagged for non-compliance when we basically know a program like Kentucky is probably breaking compliance issues left and right and getting away with it.

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And seriously, how much punishment do you need to create before you say that's enough? If you look at this emotionally, there is no punishment good enough for the sick shit that they enabled. But legal punishments aren't built on emotion. They're built on rationality. And the punishments that are going to happen are extremely harsh and they absolutely will set an example. I can guarantee you Penn State is going to clean their compliance department up and over-comply from here on out. And I can guarantee you other Universities are taking note. And the amount of money and PR hit they'll take from this isn't small potatoes.

But again, from an "example" standpoint, it's laughable to believe that the death penalty sets an example to other college programs. All the death penalty says is that poor behavior isn't poor behavior unless you get caught. Teams are still going to cheat. They are still going to run shoddy compliance programs. The NCAA needs to stop trying to make examples of those they catch and instead work on getting more consistent enforcement of the rules. It makes a joke out of the system if a team like USC or Penn State is flagged for non-compliance when we basically know a program like Kentucky is probably breaking compliance issues left and right and getting away with it.

It is perfectly rational for public funds to be withheld from PSU pending the final outcome of the civil and criminal proceedings related to this matter. That's not the death penalty, that's cutting them loose to handle their own business with their own resources. Not a huge logical leap.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

It is perfectly rational for public funds to be withheld from PSU pending the final outcome of the civil and criminal proceedings related to this matter. That's not the death penalty, that's cutting them loose to handle their own business with their own resources. Not a huge logical leap.

Penn State can't survive without those types of funding. Death penalty supporters keep pointing out that "they" must suffer the consequences. Who is "they"? Because you're talking about college kids who worked their ass off for 18 years to get into Penn State, and now you're talking about crippling their educational experience... not because of penalties, but to over communicate a punishment.

And frankly, Schultz, Curley, Sandusky... they're all ****ed the way it is. You think you're proving an extra point to them if you cripple the university?

Telling a public university of 100,000 students to rely on its own private resources especially in the absence of a football program... again, who are you trying to punish here? You are so intent on proving a point that you want to ruin the lives of hundreds of thousands of people who had nothing to do with this.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And seriously, how much punishment do you need to create before you say that's enough? If you look at this emotionally, there is no punishment good enough for the sick shit that they enabled. But legal punishments aren't built on emotion. They're built on rationality. And the punishments that are going to happen are extremely harsh and they absolutely will set an example. I can guarantee you Penn State is going to clean their compliance department up and over-comply from here on out. And I can guarantee you other Universities are taking note. And the amount of money and PR hit they'll take from this isn't small potatoes.

But again, from an "example" standpoint, it's laughable to believe that the death penalty sets an example to other college programs. All the death penalty says is that poor behavior isn't poor behavior unless you get caught. Teams are still going to cheat. They are still going to run shoddy compliance programs. The NCAA needs to stop trying to make examples of those they catch and instead work on getting more consistent enforcement of the rules. It makes a joke out of the system if a team like USC or Penn State is flagged for non-compliance when we basically know a program like Kentucky is probably breaking compliance issues left and right and getting away with it.

Just because everyone else may or may not cheat doesn't mean you should absolve what happened here from punishment. That should have nothing to do with it. You also don't know that this means Penn State will clean up their act. Obviously the child molester that started all of this is gone... but you certainly cannot say the cult-like culture of their program has been fixed.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by tk13

Just because everyone else may or may not cheat doesn't mean you should absolve what happened here from punishment. That should have nothing to do with it. You also don't know that this means Penn State will clean up their act. Obviously the child molester that started all of this is gone... but you certainly cannot say the cult-like culture of their program has been fixed.

No, I'm not absolving anyone from punishment. But again, to be clear... people for whatever reason are acting like if Penn State doesn't get the death penalty, they get off scott free. I have no idea where that's coming from. They are getting hammered right now and deservedly so. And they will probably get deserved sanctions from the NCAA and nobody is disputing that they deserve some of those. But to the original point, I've said all along there is an institutional problem in the NCAA that encourages cover-up and compliance has become a laughingstock matter. Even harsh penalties against Penn State aren't going to make other programs comply.

While we don't know if Penn State will comply, the NCAA has the power to build assurances that they will. They can force Penn State to over-comply. To report everything with the understanding that if Penn State continues to break rules, the NCAA will take everything away from them. As for Penn State, you know they're motivated to comply. They can't afford another repetutational hit. They are in massive damage control mode right now. There is no way that massive compliance changes aren't a big part of that, because there is so much to lose if they screw up again.

[Dylan]

"Outside the Penn State football stadium stands a statue of legendary coach Joe Paterno, his arm raised in victory. Right next to it, university officials should erect another figure in bronze: a young boy crying out in anguish and being coldly ignored."

-Eugene Robinson, Washington Post


Brilliant!



The report indicated Penn State failed to carry out its requirements under the Clery Act, a federal law which mandated universities and colleges that participate in FEDERAL financial aid programs to keep and disclose information about crime on and near their campuses.

Ten year suspension of all NCAA scholarships for Penn State. Any less is tolerance for this abomination.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And seriously, how much punishment do you need to create before you say that's enough? If you look at this emotionally, there is no punishment good enough for the sick shit that they enabled. But legal punishments aren't built on emotion. They're built on rationality. And the punishments that are going to happen are extremely harsh and they absolutely will set an example. I can guarantee you Penn State is going to clean their compliance department up and over-comply from here on out. And I can guarantee you other Universities are taking note. And the amount of money and PR hit they'll take from this isn't small potatoes.

Yeah, I guess that's enough punishment for covering up child rape for 14 years.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by -King-

Yeah, I guess that's enough punishment for covering up child rape for 14 years.

Hundreds of million dollars in settlements, severe punishments for those who covered it up, 442 years in jail to the guy raping children, likely sanctions to the football program, and tens of millions in additional costs as a result of damage control to repair the university's PR.

That's a heavy punishment.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Hundreds of million dollars in settlements, severe punishments for those who covered it up, 442 years in jail to the guy raping children, likely sanctions to the football program, and tens of millions in additional costs as a result of damage control to repair the university's PR.

That's a heavy punishment.

What type of sanctions are you thinking?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by -King-

What type of sanctions are you thinking?

USC sanctions (though I'd up that to 3 years) plus compliance requirements. Take away ability to offer new football scholarships (and I agree, football players with commitments should have opportunities to pursue opportunities elsewhere. Take away bowl games for 3 years. It may sound small, but it will assure Penn State doesn't have a competitive football program for 5 years or so and it's going to lose the program millions of dollars.

There are ways to punish the football program harshly without also punishing the students and faculty who rely on the school, the majority of which did nothing wrong other than maybe overzealously root for scumbags... which is not illegal by any means.

[Dylan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Hundreds of million dollars in settlements, severe punishments for those who covered it up, 442 years in jail to the guy raping children, likely sanctions to the football program, and tens of millions in additional costs as a result of damage control to repair the university's PR.

That's a heavy punishment.

You might want to add: Graham Spanier, the ex-president, who at the same time he was serving as chair to the NCAA Division I Board of Directors, athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Shultz, need to go to prison. The report was icing on the cake with enough evidence to convict them.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And seriously, how much punishment do you need to create before you say that's enough?

I have already answered this a dozen times ... you just choose to ignore it because you really don't care.

"Death Penalty for the PSU football team for 2 or 3 years"

it's not a hard concept to understand, the power culture of the PSU football program led to the people in power ignoring the law, ignoring what was right,ignoring the molestation of children.

The culture of PSU football needs to be changed

Might does not make right ... Joe Paterno isn't a god. Football coaches/players can't just run around doing what they want without consequence.

Every school/coach/administrator/player in the NCAA needs to see that they aren't above the law or what is right.

The NCAA needs to set an example

To be honest, i don't give a shit if PSU falls on hard times because of the financial loss of football for a couple of years. Maybe the entire football machine will be that much the better for it going forward.


Money above children, money above what's right ... you, chiefzilla, should be ashamed of yourself for being such a pathetic and heartless human being.


i'm done