Chiefs Mellinger: Chiefs are built for an era thats past..... - Page 3

Deberg_1990 · 09-20-2012, 06:51 AM

Babb and Mellinger, just killin it this week.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/19...is-on-the.html

The talk this week is about Scott Pioli’s competence, Clark Hunt’s commitment and Romeo Crennel’s laid-back leadership, and that’s all good and relevant in many ways, but it also misses a very important point that can be summed up something like this:
Even at full strength, the Chiefs are metaphorically not only running a race on a tightrope but doing it directly into the wind.

Matt Cassel’s limitations have been exaggerated and dramatized, a topic as omnipresent around here as potholes, but the argument for him being anything better than a bottom-quarter passer in the NFL is difficult to make.

That’s frustrating enough on its own, but it becomes a game-changer when you put context to the bigger plan on which Pioli is essentially betting his career in Kansas City. The organizational hope — or foundation, because the whole thing crumbles if they’re wrong here — is that Cassel is good enough to facilitate a championship team.

Even a distracted child can realize, just by watching games, that the NFL is a passing league. But when you look at some plain and simple numbers, you will dismiss any notion that the Chiefs are making chicken salad out of something much less appetizing.
Actually, they’re giving their fans the same old meal.
The numbers are clear, and they’re not encouraging.

________________________________________
The forward pass got a late start in American football, banned for the sport’s first few decades, and in a lot of ways has been playing catch-up ever since. Even now, when the NFL’s three most expensive positions are the quarterback, the left tackle who protects the quarterback and the defensive end who sacks the quarterback, our clichés are stuck in the days of black-and-white television.

Do a quick Google search on all the coaches who say they have to establish the run and stop the run.

And then digest some statistics that say they’re all full of hooey.
“Everybody says you gotta stop the run, stop the run,” Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson says. “But you gotta stop the pass, too.”

Last year, the 10 teams that ran the ball most effectively (by yards per carry) went a combined 82-78. The 10 teams that threw the ball most effectively (by passer rating) went a combined 113-47.

The 10 teams that stopped the run most effectively went a combined 83-77. The 10 teams that stopped the pass most effectively went a combined 96-64.
Put another way: The teams that excelled in the running game won as many times as they lost, while the teams that excelled in the passing game won enough to make the playoffs. That’s the whole thing right there: mediocre or successful, fired or given a raise.
This is more than the anecdotal evidence often used about the Giants winning the Super Bowl last year with the league’s worst running game. And it is particularly timely this week, because the Saints and Chiefs rank fifth and sixth in yards per carry, respectively, and have yet to win a game.

Turnovers have been a particular problem for both teams, but again, the biggest chunk of that problem is coming through the air: Matt Cassel has thrown three interceptions and fumbled twice, while Drew Brees has thrown four interceptions and fumbled once.
Nearly 70 percent of the yards gained in the NFL this season have come through the air, which would be the highest rate in league history.

Perhaps the new maxim should be, “We need to establish the pass and stop the pass.”
“Kind of, because you need to make plays in the passing game,” Charles says. “When you throw the ball down the field, more often those are bigger plays than running plays.”
This is all particularly discouraging when studied through the prism of the Chiefs, and not just as it pertains to the health of defensive backs Eric Berry, Brandon Flowers and Kendrick Lewis. Over the offseason, the Chiefs downgraded at cornerback, going from Brandon Carr to Stanford Routt, while improving at running back, by signing Peyton Hillis to pair with Charles. On top of that, so much of the Chiefs’ focus through recent drafts has been on finding defensive linemen to stop the run.

Meanwhile, if you allow for improvement from young players like Jacksonville’s Blaine Gabbert and Cleveland’s Brandon Weeden, it’s not a stretch to say the Chiefs have one of the three worst quarterback situations in football.

The NFL world is zigging right, and the Chiefs are zagging left.
Increasingly, it looks like they’re being left behind.
________________________________________
One of Pioli’s biggest successes in Kansas City has been surrounding Cassel with one of the league’s better groups of skills players. There just aren’t many teams that can match the Chiefs’ crop of receivers, running backs and tight ends.

So it’s not that they’re ignoring the pass. Bowe is making close to $10 million this year, and new tight end Kevin Boss made a remarkable touchdown catch against the Falcons — and then was injured in Buffalo. It’s just that they are increasingly emphasizing the run, which by definition increasingly de-emphasizes the pass.

When Todd Haley was hired as head coach, he went from designing a pass-first offense with Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald to a power running game featuring Charles. Cassel’s success in 2010 is often credited to former offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, but it’s just as likely that Haley benefitted from defenses having to focus so much on the run (as well as string of would-be interceptions dropped by defenders). Crennel is now the head coach, his reputation in large part anchored by coordinating defenses that stopped the run in New England.

There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg aspect to all of this — of course the Chiefs would love to have an elite quarterback; but since they lack one, they are trying to create and emphasize other strengths.

But it’s hard to find a team anywhere else in the NFL that’s stressing the run as hard as the Chiefs. And it’s impossible to find another time in the league’s history where doing so is less important.

Chiefnj2 · 09-20-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Lee

I agree with one caveat; this only works if you have a strong coaching staff that can prepare a team for Sunday and then make in game adjustments as needed.

Right now this HC and staff seem to be lacking either of those qualifications.

I agree. Those teams also have had their QBs step up in the postseason and pass the ball when needed. Something Cassel hasn't shown the ability to do.

htismaqe · 09-20-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Pioli is probably thinking that in the last 3 years the Jets (2x), San Fran, and to a lesser degree Baltimore have all had run first, strong D teams that made it far in the playoffs (and in some cases should have won the conference championship games). Yes, it isn't as popular and there is a much smaller window for error, but it can still be effective at times.

The Jets are really the only example he could possibly use. SF and Baltimore both have GREAT head coaches. We don't.

Interestingly enough, ALL THREE of those teams have 1st round QBs.

htismaqe · 09-20-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I agree. Those teams also have had their QBs step up in the postseason and pass the ball when needed. Something Cassel hasn't shown the ability to do.

Exactly.

Black Bob · 09-20-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Interestingly enough, ALL THREE of those teams have 1st round QBs.

Good point...

KC_Lee · 09-20-2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The Jets are really the only example he could possibly use. SF and Baltimore both have GREAT head coaches. We don't.

Interestingly enough, ALL THREE of those teams have 1st round QBs.

And consider that Alex Smith was on and off the bench and considered a bust until Harbaugh (sp?) was hired as HC.

htismaqe · 09-20-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBob

Good point...

Right now, I think it's arguable whether ANY of the 3 are "franchise" QBs.

Sanchez has underwhelmed, Smith needs to continue to prove he's turned the corner, and Flacco needs to take it to the next level.

That being said, if Pioli is trying to emulate these teams, they ALL have QBs drafted in the 1st round. So he better get one.

**HemiEd** · 09-20-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

That's what I don't understand. Pioli drafted team captains, and the right 53. Where the hell are the leaders?

He has probably stepped on them all and enforced his will. You have to allow them to succeed.

tk13 · 09-20-2012, 08:33 AM

You can still win divisions and playoff games with a good running attack. The Texans and Broncos led the league in rushing last year and they both won a playoff game with QBs who aren't very good. The Ravens, Jets, Niners have all had success running the football. The Niners were one of the best run defenses ever, and they almost went to a Super Bowl. The Giants averaged 89 yards rushing a game, but they also went 9-7 and barely made the playoffs. Once in the playoffs, they averaged over 116 rushing yards a game. Not great but servicable. Meanwhile the high flying Packers, Saints and Lions didn't even make the league championship game. Numbers are what you make of them. You absolutely have to have the QB to make the key plays and win the whole thing... but being able to run the ball or playing good D to have a balanced team is still a good thing.
Posted via Mobile Device

scho63 · 09-20-2012, 08:57 AM

I have personally never seen the Chiefs media so strong and bold against the organization. It seems like they all have been emboldened since Babb tore into the team first and now it's a free-for-all.

GOOD!

mikey23545 · 09-20-2012, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

You can still win divisions and playoff games with a good running attack. The Texans and Broncos led the league in rushing last year and they both won a playoff game with QBs who aren't very good. The Ravens, Jets, Niners have all had success running the football. The Niners were one of the best run defenses ever, and they almost went to a Super Bowl. The Giants averaged 89 yards rushing a game, but they also went 9-7 and barely made the playoffs. Once in the playoffs, they averaged over 116 rushing yards a game. Not great but servicable. Meanwhile the high flying Packers, Saints and Lions didn't even make the league championship game. Numbers are what you make of them. You absolutely have to have the QB to make the key plays and win the whole thing... but being able to run the ball or playing good D to have a balanced team is still a good thing.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, we've got too many ignoramuses on the Planet who have become convinced a strong running game is actually a weakness.

Just because you need to have a competent QB does not mean a strong running game is a doomsday scenario for a team's chances. When you have nothing but a strong running game, that is the trouble, not the running game itself.

htismaqe · 09-20-2012, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey23545

Yeah, we've got too many ignoramuses on the Planet who have become convinced a strong running game is actually a weakness.

Just because you need to have a competent QB does not mean a strong running game is a doomsday scenario for a team's chances.

There isn't a single person here that thinks a strong running game is a weakness.

Brock · 09-20-2012, 09:01 AM

Where is this strong running game, btw?

BoneKrusher · 09-20-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Where is this strong running game, btw?

in Buffalo?

ct · 09-20-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

You can still win divisions and playoff games with a good running attack. The Texans and Broncos led the league in rushing last year and they both won a playoff game with QBs who aren't very good. The Ravens, Jets, Niners have all had success running the football. The Niners were one of the best run defenses ever, and they almost went to a Super Bowl. The Giants averaged 89 yards rushing a game, but they also went 9-7 and barely made the playoffs. Once in the playoffs, they averaged over 116 rushing yards a game. Not great but servicable. Meanwhile the high flying Packers, Saints and Lions didn't even make the league championship game. Numbers are what you make of them. You absolutely have to have the QB to make the key plays and win the whole thing... but being able to run the ball or playing good D to have a balanced team is still a good thing.
Posted via Mobile Device

this

none of the things we thought we would have are actually functioning. strong defense? uh...no. dominant o-line and running game? uh...no.

which leaves our only hope to outscore opponents. uh...definitely no!

Deberg_1990 · 09-20-2012, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

You can still win divisions and playoff games with a good running attack. The Texans and Broncos led the league in rushing last year and they both won a playoff game with QBs who aren't very good. The Ravens, Jets, Niners have all had success running the football. The Niners were one of the best run defenses ever, and they almost went to a Super Bowl. The Giants averaged 89 yards rushing a game, but they also went 9-7 and barely made the playoffs. Once in the playoffs, they averaged over 116 rushing yards a game. Not great but servicable. Meanwhile the high flying Packers, Saints and Lions didn't even make the league championship game. Numbers are what you make of them. You absolutely have to have the QB to make the key plays and win the whole thing... but being able to run the ball or playing good D to have a balanced team is still a good thing.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yea, he throws a lot of numbers around all to say you need a top tier QB to win a Super Bowl.
Funny you mention the Giants. Ive been saying for the past few years the the NFL regular season has been diminished and not as significant as it once was. We are starting to see a trend now of average regular season teams make a run in the playoffs and/or winning championships. Giants last year….Cardinals a few years ago…Seahawks in 2010…Steelers in 2005 were only 10-6 when they won as a wildcard

09-20-2012, 06:51 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $284454	Mellinger: Chiefs are built for an era thats past..... Babb and Mellinger, just killin it this week. http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/19...is-on-the.html The talk this week is about Scott Pioli’s competence, Clark Hunt’s commitment and Romeo Crennel’s laid-back leadership, and that’s all good and relevant in many ways, but it also misses a very important point that can be summed up something like this: Even at full strength, the Chiefs are metaphorically not only running a race on a tightrope but doing it directly into the wind. Matt Cassel’s limitations have been exaggerated and dramatized, a topic as omnipresent around here as potholes, but the argument for him being anything better than a bottom-quarter passer in the NFL is difficult to make. That’s frustrating enough on its own, but it becomes a game-changer when you put context to the bigger plan on which Pioli is essentially betting his career in Kansas City. The organizational hope — or foundation, because the whole thing crumbles if they’re wrong here — is that Cassel is good enough to facilitate a championship team. Even a distracted child can realize, just by watching games, that the NFL is a passing league. But when you look at some plain and simple numbers, you will dismiss any notion that the Chiefs are making chicken salad out of something much less appetizing. Actually, they’re giving their fans the same old meal. The numbers are clear, and they’re not encouraging. ________________________________________ The forward pass got a late start in American football, banned for the sport’s first few decades, and in a lot of ways has been playing catch-up ever since. Even now, when the NFL’s three most expensive positions are the quarterback, the left tackle who protects the quarterback and the defensive end who sacks the quarterback, our clichés are stuck in the days of black-and-white television. Do a quick Google search on all the coaches who say they have to establish the run and stop the run. And then digest some statistics that say they’re all full of hooey. “Everybody says you gotta stop the run, stop the run,” Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson says. “But you gotta stop the pass, too.” Last year, the 10 teams that ran the ball most effectively (by yards per carry) went a combined 82-78. The 10 teams that threw the ball most effectively (by passer rating) went a combined 113-47. The 10 teams that stopped the run most effectively went a combined 83-77. The 10 teams that stopped the pass most effectively went a combined 96-64. Put another way: The teams that excelled in the running game won as many times as they lost, while the teams that excelled in the passing game won enough to make the playoffs. That’s the whole thing right there: mediocre or successful, fired or given a raise. This is more than the anecdotal evidence often used about the Giants winning the Super Bowl last year with the league’s worst running game. And it is particularly timely this week, because the Saints and Chiefs rank fifth and sixth in yards per carry, respectively, and have yet to win a game. Turnovers have been a particular problem for both teams, but again, the biggest chunk of that problem is coming through the air: Matt Cassel has thrown three interceptions and fumbled twice, while Drew Brees has thrown four interceptions and fumbled once. Nearly 70 percent of the yards gained in the NFL this season have come through the air, which would be the highest rate in league history. Perhaps the new maxim should be, “We need to establish the pass and stop the pass.” “Kind of, because you need to make plays in the passing game,” Charles says. “When you throw the ball down the field, more often those are bigger plays than running plays.” This is all particularly discouraging when studied through the prism of the Chiefs, and not just as it pertains to the health of defensive backs Eric Berry, Brandon Flowers and Kendrick Lewis. Over the offseason, the Chiefs downgraded at cornerback, going from Brandon Carr to Stanford Routt, while improving at running back, by signing Peyton Hillis to pair with Charles. On top of that, so much of the Chiefs’ focus through recent drafts has been on finding defensive linemen to stop the run. Meanwhile, if you allow for improvement from young players like Jacksonville’s Blaine Gabbert and Cleveland’s Brandon Weeden, it’s not a stretch to say the Chiefs have one of the three worst quarterback situations in football. The NFL world is zigging right, and the Chiefs are zagging left. Increasingly, it looks like they’re being left behind. ________________________________________ One of Pioli’s biggest successes in Kansas City has been surrounding Cassel with one of the league’s better groups of skills players. There just aren’t many teams that can match the Chiefs’ crop of receivers, running backs and tight ends. So it’s not that they’re ignoring the pass. Bowe is making close to $10 million this year, and new tight end Kevin Boss made a remarkable touchdown catch against the Falcons — and then was injured in Buffalo. It’s just that they are increasingly emphasizing the run, which by definition increasingly de-emphasizes the pass. When Todd Haley was hired as head coach, he went from designing a pass-first offense with Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald to a power running game featuring Charles. Cassel’s success in 2010 is often credited to former offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, but it’s just as likely that Haley benefitted from defenses having to focus so much on the run (as well as string of would-be interceptions dropped by defenders). Crennel is now the head coach, his reputation in large part anchored by coordinating defenses that stopped the run in New England. There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg aspect to all of this — of course the Chiefs would love to have an elite quarterback; but since they lack one, they are trying to create and emphasize other strengths. But it’s hard to find a team anywhere else in the NFL that’s stressing the run as hard as the Chiefs. And it’s impossible to find another time in the league’s history where doing so is less important.
Posts: 68,459

09-20-2012, 08:33 AM	#38
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1717500	You can still win divisions and playoff games with a good running attack. The Texans and Broncos led the league in rushing last year and they both won a playoff game with QBs who aren't very good. The Ravens, Jets, Niners have all had success running the football. The Niners were one of the best run defenses ever, and they almost went to a Super Bowl. The Giants averaged 89 yards rushing a game, but they also went 9-7 and barely made the playoffs. Once in the playoffs, they averaged over 116 rushing yards a game. Not great but servicable. Meanwhile the high flying Packers, Saints and Lions didn't even make the league championship game. Numbers are what you make of them. You absolutely have to have the QB to make the key plays and win the whole thing... but being able to run the ball or playing good D to have a balanced team is still a good thing. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 56,624

09-20-2012, 08:57 AM	#39
scho63 Politically Incorrect Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Casino cash: $-760000	I have personally never seen the Chiefs media so strong and bold against the organization. It seems like they all have been emboldened since Babb tore into the team first and now it's a free-for-all. GOOD! __________________ *"The only difference between sex for free and sex for money is that sex for free costs you a WHOLE LOT more!"* ~Redd Foxx~ ~~2018 2019 2020 20212022 2023~~ 2024 Adopt a Chief - Clark Hunt and Brett Veach "The men who drafted Patrick Mahomes"
Posts: 54,948

09-20-2012, 09:01 AM	#42
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Where is this strong running game, btw?
Posts: 47,314