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Old 10-17-2012, 06:38 AM  
Mother****erJones Mother****erJones is offline
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Per 610 Sports. Russ Ball and Bill Cowher GM HC targets
Both worked together with Marty Schottenheimer in KC. Russ Ball is in GB. Cowher is KCs top target. I dont believe the Cowher crap its been going on for years
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:32 AM   #121
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No to Cowher. I know this might be unpopular but I think Cowher's time has passed and I think he is a tad overrated and a product of the Steeler's system.
He WAS the Steelers system.

Consistent teams. Always played tough. I loved/hated Cowher teams. And when he finally got his QB? Super Bowl appearance in the first year. Won it in the fourth year.

Cowher won't get out of bed without a top quarterback. I guarantee this guy saw the light once he got a playmaker under center. Like, "how the HELL did I ever go to movies without assigned seating before?"
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:32 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Martyball did NOT disappear in San Diego.

Martyball isn't just 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Martyball is risk avoidance to the point that it adversely affects the outcome of the game - aka "play not to lose".

Martyball doesn't just affect the offense. Marty had a propensity to use the prevent defense and other methods to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
To be fair he should of beat New England if that dumbass goes down after the Int.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:33 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
He WAS the Steelers system.

Consistent teams. Always played tough. I loved/hated Cowher teams. And when he finally got his QB? Super Bowl appearance in the first year. Won it in the fourth year.

Cowher won't get out of bed without a top quarterback. I guarantee this guy saw the light once he got a playmaker under center. Like, "how the HELL did I ever go to movies without assigned seating before?"
Cowher didn't win a Super Bowl title until his 15th season in Pittsburgh.

Edit: Just re-read your comment. I disagree that Ben was "his" QB. Cowher never advocated spending a first round choice on a QB. The only reason Ben went 15-1 that season is because Cowher started Maddox. Who knows? They may have been 16-0.

If not for the injury to Maddox in game one that season, who knows how long it would have been before Rothlisberger saw the field. How many losses would it have taken?
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:37 AM   #124
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Cowher didn't win a Super Bowl title until his 15th season in Pittsburgh.
And four years after he finally got a QB. I get what you're saying, dude. I just think that Cowher had competitive, tough, winning teams until that point. When he got his QB, he got to the Super Bowl.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Cowher would win a Super Bowl with KC. But someone needs to right the ship, and fast. I have confidence that Cowher could do that. I don't understand this revisionist history where Cowher was a mediocre coach.

And I have zero doubt that Marty would have won a SB if they had kept Brees.

He got fired after a 14-2 season, because he wanted to keep Brees over Rivers. That doesn't sound like a guy who the game had passed.

EDIT: I don't mean "his" QB as in his hand-picked guy that he championed. I mean he finally had a QB that could make plays when the game is on the line. That, to me, is the difference now between good teams and championship teams. If you don't have a guy who can make plays throwing the ball in crunchtime, you don't have a chance.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:41 AM   #125
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:43 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
And I have zero doubt that Marty would have won a SB if they had kept Brees.
You have to win a playoff game or two to go to the SB.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:45 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
And four years after he finally got a QB. I get what you're saying, dude. I just think that Cowher had competitive, tough, winning teams until that point. When he got his QB, he got to the Super Bowl.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Cowher would win a Super Bowl with KC. But someone needs to right the ship, and fast. I have confidence that Cowher could do that. I don't understand this revisionist history where Cowher was a mediocre coach.
I don't think there's any revisionist history happening. Cowher was a good coach that went to a Super Bowl and won another in 15 years.

Since then, his replacement has won a Super Bowl and lost another, in just a few short years (and with FAR less talent than Cowher's teams).

He was far from mediocre but his stubborn attitude towards QB's cost him and Pittsburgh several more shots at Super Bowl titles.

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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
And I have zero doubt that Marty would have won a SB if they had kept Brees.

He got fired after a 14-2 season, because he wanted to keep Brees over Rivers. That doesn't sound like a guy who the game had passed.
I've mentioned this before but I guess it's worth mentioning again: Marty hasn't been employed by an NFL team since 2006. Why?

Well, it has nothing to due with his coaching. It has to due with the fact that he wants personnel control.

1: Cleveland. He was fired for Mike Junkin (#5 overall, bust) and the failure to hire an offensive coordinator after Lindy Infante left for Green Bay.
2. Resigned in KC after terrible 1998 season in which he wrestled personnel control from Carl Peterson.
3. Fired in Washington after 8-8 season for attempting to wrestle personnel control from Vinny Cerato.
4. Fired in San Diego after 2006 for attempting to wrestle control from A.J. Smith in San Diego.

In each of those situations, Marty pulled the "Me or Him" routine, in which he lost in every city but KC. If he'd shut up and coach, he'd be in the NFL right now.

But he can't.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:47 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
You have to win a playoff game or two to go to the SB.
Touche.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:52 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I don't think there's any revisionist history happening. Cowher was a good coach that went to a Super Bowl and won another in 15 years.

Since then, his replacement has won a Super Bowl and lost another, in just a few short years (and with FAR less talent than Cowher's teams).

He was far from mediocre but his stubborn attitude towards QB's cost him and Pittsburgh several more shots at Super Bowl titles.
I can't possibly speak to the inner workings of the Steelers and the power struggles over who wanted what QB.

I will say this... Tomlin won a Super Bowl and went to another the exact same way that Cowher did: defense and a legit QB.

I mean, it's not rocket science. And I, for one, don't believe in the power of coaches nearly as much as some.

I think you're right in that the biggest thing a coach can do to shoot himself in the foot is to resist getting the QB. You have to find your quarterback, and when you do, don't try to run the ball 60% of the time.

If Cowher doesn't understand that the game has changed from the 90's era run-first, punt, defend style championed by Marty, then I don't want him. I want a coach who realizes that the game is played through the pass now, and without the ability and willingness to pass it deep, you will NOT win in the postseason.

God-willing, Cowher's distance from the game as an analyst has allowed him some perspective to realize that. If not, thanks but no thanks.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:53 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Martyball did NOT disappear in San Diego.

Martyball isn't just 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Martyball is risk avoidance to the point that it adversely affects the outcome of the game - aka "play not to lose".

Martyball doesn't just affect the offense. Marty had a propensity to use the prevent defense and other methods to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I'd say it's even more than that. Martyball (or Martyocrity as I like to call it) as a philosophy infects every level of an organization. Coaching, roster, you name it. And the end result is a team that can perform against the NFL average, but not against the NFL elite. That'll net you consistent seasons between 9-7 and 13-3, depending on how the schedule falls, keeps the stands full, but rarely gives you meaningful wins.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:55 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
I'd say it's even more than that. Martyball (or Martyocrity as I like to call it) as a philosophy infects every level of an organization. Coaching, roster, you name it. And the end result is a team that can perform against the NFL average, but not against the NFL elite. That'll net you consistent seasons between 9-7 and 13-3, depending on how the schedule falls, keeps the stands full, but rarely gives you meaningful wins.
Martyball = risk averse coaching.

I want a coach that is not risk averse and, instead, plays the odds.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:57 AM   #132
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Martyball = risk averse coaching.

I want a coach that is not risk averse and, instead, plays the odds.
I don't want any more defensive coaches. It hasn't made the team any tougher, and as the league moves more and more towards scoring, it's been putting us further and further behind everyone else. I'd rather try with someone like Haley and fail, then fail before we even start with another Herm or Romeo.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:58 AM   #133
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I don't see how the Chiefs get Cowher. Clark will be paying 5 mil next year and 3 mil a year for the next few years with Romeo. You figure Cowher would command 7-8 mil a year.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:05 AM   #134
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I don't see how the Chiefs get Cowher. Clark will be paying 5 mil next year and 3 mil a year for the next few years with Romeo. You figure Cowher would command 7-8 mil a year.
Gates bro - Gates BBQ will win him in.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:13 AM   #135
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I don't want any more defensive coaches. It hasn't made the team any tougher, and as the league moves more and more towards scoring, it's been putting us further and further behind everyone else. I'd rather try with someone like Haley and fail, then fail before we even start with another Herm or Romeo.
This.
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