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Old 11-15-2012, 05:03 AM  
Silock Silock is offline
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Are most successful coaches "mean?"

I'm having a hard time thinking of many great coaches that don't yell at their players. Belichick doesn't seem like a yeller. Nor does Phil Jackson. But looking at other successful coaches, it seems that being a hard-ass and yelling seems to do more than being a nice guy. Bill Self yells at his players a LOT. So did Mangino.

Tom Coughlin is a hard-ass. Jim Harbaugh. Bill Cowher. Marty. Nick Saban (college only, it seems). Bobby Knight.

It seems like it takes a special kind of coach to motivate his players without yelling at them to really get their attention. I'm not saying that yelling is indicative of success (lol Haley), just that, in general, it seems like more coaches have more success with being mean than they do with taking the Romeo approach.

I'm also certain that I'm leaving out a ton of coaches that are successful and DON'T yell. So, I'm open to being wrong about this, but it just struck me the other night that I can think of more successful "mean" coaches than successful "nice" coaches.

It also seems as though players today are less comfortable being yelled at than we were back in my day. And I'm only 31, so it's not like I'm THAT old. But I never had a problem with a coach yelling at me to either motivate me or point out mistakes I made on the field. I feel like it made me better as a player.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:19 AM   #2
ChiefMojo ChiefMojo is offline
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Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith, Tom Landry, Tom Osborne, etc. there are many coaches that can get after a player in practice from time to time but really don't rant and rave.

There is also a difference between going nuts screaming and raising your voice to get your point across.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:20 AM   #3
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Marty was not a prick.

He knew what buttons to push for each individual player.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:25 AM   #4
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I think it has a lot to do with having a competitive nature and getting the point across to the players. They can't do it themselves on the battle field so they have to really push hard what they teach and sometimes that comes across as yelling. I don't think they try to be mean but come across that way especially when the players don't listen or do something wrong, then it gets worse. They play good less yelling play lousy more yelling.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:48 AM   #5
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Nope.

Not everyone responds to derision. Some people respond much better to encouragement. Dumb people see that as coddling, but that's how some people are. Most people actually.

Most coaches, at some point, will yell. That doesn't make them like Bobby Knight or Bill Parcells. Those guys are just bullies. There's a huge difference. Bullying players used to work because these coaches had so much power over them... not so much the case anymore. Guys on the roster bubble probably take the yelling just like old school players... because they have no choice.

Good coaches tend to share two traits in their personality that I notice. 1. They strongly value discipline and accountability. Even if coaches don't disparage players, they can do this. Very easily. When a player says about a coach "He treats us like Men"... that means he does NOT hold them accountable and expects them to hold themselves accountable. This doesn't work.

2. They have a big ego. I've never seen a good coach who didn't have one. Maybe Joe Gibbs. Most good coaches probably build shrines to themselves.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:48 AM   #6
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:50 AM   #7
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This topic surfaces on occasion and it's not unusual for Belichick's name to come up in this context. But it always brings to my mind the story Tony Gonzalez told about the year when Belichick coached him in the Pro-Bowl.

According to Gonzalez, Belichick was extremely demanding. In fact, he never caught Gonzalez doing anything right all week ... he always found something to criticize. If it wasn't his cuts, it was his blocking. If it wasn't his blocking, it was his start off the line. That sort of thing.

Anyhow, due to the fact that Belichick's standards were, apparently, impossible for Gonzalez to meet, he tried even harder at practice to get it right. Then, on a particular play in the game, Gonzalez ran his route, caught the ball properly, and gained some YAC and a first down. Afterwards, he rotated out and came to the sideline fully expecting Belichick to either criticize him again or ignore him completely. Instead, as Gonzalez walked by the coach, Belichick (without even looking at him) said, "Good catch, 88."

Gonzalez said that one, small compliment shocked and surprised him. And, after all the problems, it made him want to bust his ass on the next series even more. And that's in the Pro-Bowl where nobody really cares ... supposedly.

Obviously, the moral of the story is that (even though many coaches do) you don't have to constantly scream and yell in order to be a hard-ass. And if you're good at it, you can motivate players beyond their own expectations. Of course, even though Belichick has had his share of player, coaching, and official confrontations as well as the occasional melt-down, he's generally perceived as stoic ... almost aloof ... but he isn't a "softie" by any means, either. To me, he sounds like a guy who has figured out how to identify a player's personal button locations and knows when and how to push them.

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Old 11-15-2012, 05:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX View Post
This topic surfaces on occasion and it's not unusual for Belichick's name to come up in this context. But it always brings to my mind the story Tony Gonzalez told about the year when Belichick coached him in the Pro-Bowl.

According to Gonzalez, Belichick was extremely demanding. In fact, he never caught Gonzalez doing anything right all week ... he always found something to criticize. If it wasn't his cuts, it was his blocking. If it wasn't his blocking, it was his start off the line. That sort of thing.

Anyhow, due to the fact that Belichick's standards were, apparently, impossible for Gonzalez to meet, he tried even harder at practice to get it right. Then, on a particular play in the game, Gonzalez ran his route, caught the ball properly, and gained some YAC and a first down. Afterwards, he rotated out and came to the sideline fully expecting Belichick to either criticize him again or ignore him completely. Instead, as Gonzalez walked by the coach, Belichick (without even looking at him) said, "Good catch, 88."

Gonzalez said that one, small compliment shocked and surprised him. And, after all the problems, it made him want to bust his ass on the next series even more. And that's in the Pro-Bowl where nobody really cares ... supposedly.

Obviously, the moral of the story is that (even though many coaches do) you don't have to constantly scream and yell in order to be a hard-ass. And if you're good at it, you can motivate players beyond their own expectations. Of course, even though Belichick has had his share of player, coaching, and official confrontations as well as the occasional melt-down, he's generally perceived as stoic ... almost aloof ... but he isn't a "softie" by any means, either. To me, he sounds like a guy who has figured out how to identify a player's personal button locations and knows when and how to push them.

FAX
A great example of both of the traits I listed.

Bill is a disciplinarian. He's not a guy who runs around insulting his players.

Joe Montana said that Bill Walsh would always criticize his passes in practice if they didn't hit the WR in stride right in the numbers on a short route. Walsh would tell Joe "You need to get that ball 3 inches more in front of him!" No pass was good enough.

Walsh's philosophy is like Belichick's and echos my favorite quote from Vince Lombardi.

“Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it. But along the way, we shall catch excellence.”
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:21 AM   #9
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I think if you are going to yell and go off, you have to have success. Otherwise, it will get old quick. I think it also helps if you have actually played the game. I think that is very important if you are going to take that approach.

Last edited by Woodchuck; 11-15-2012 at 06:30 AM..
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Walsh's philosophy is like Belichick's and echos my favorite quote from Vince Lombardi.

“Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it. But along the way, we shall catch excellence.”
Did Vince Lombardi have a "Play good football" sign in the locker room too? Just asking.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:42 AM   #11
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All of the men described in this thread would never come here and bow before Scot Pioli's Patriot way, ego ass, attitude.

Last edited by crossbow; 11-15-2012 at 07:07 AM..
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:43 AM   #12
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Did Vince Lombardi have a "Play good football" sign in the locker room too? Just asking.
He definately never had one like this. Todd Haley? For real?

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Old 11-15-2012, 07:11 AM   #13
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That "Big Brother" sign reveals a lot about what condition the locker room has been in for a long time.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:20 AM   #14
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Belichick isn't a yeller, but he's very demanding. The anecdote about Tony G catches it perfectly. Brady makes it perfectly clear that Belichick still criticizes him -- alot! But he welcomes it because nobody is perfect and they're always trying to get better. If you can't take coaching, you can't get better.

You can also see that Belichick sticks up for his players. No loss is ever on one guy, it's always about the team. The offense can roll and the defense suck, or vice versa, and it's all about how the TEAM didn't play well enough to win etc.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:50 AM   #15
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