Eddie Van Halen deconstructs his collaboration on 'Beat It'

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Ecto-I

Actually this isn't entirely true...while Toto was involved with some production aspects they only wrote the song "Human Nature" on the Thriller Album. The rest of the songs were written by either Michael Jackson (Wanna Be Startin Somethin, Billie Jean, Beat It, The Girl is Mine) or Rod Temperton.

Okay, here goes:

1. Toto members were session players on every Thriller track, whether it was Lukather, Steve Pocaro, Jeff Pocao, David Paich, etc. and so on. Other great players included Dean Parks, Michael Boddicker and basically the "Who's who" of the LA Session scene.

2. As far as production is concerned, Thriller featured the greatest session players and arrangers of all time including Jerry Hey, Dean Parks, David Foster (who was later a brilliant producer), Humberto Gattica and the amazing Bruce Swedien, who recorded Michael's vocals with a $150 dollar microphone at the time ($349 now), the Shure SM7. Everyone who's ever watched a radio broadcast or been in a radio booth knows the SM7.

Michael was the magic.

3. Michael was not a musician. He couldn't play any instrument. Therefore, he couldn't compose music, hence he didn't actually write every song in which he was listed as writer.

Ghost writers wrote the record and those ghost writers were Toto. This is not uncommon. Ozzy Osbourne can't play an instrument and doesn't write lyrics, yet he's listed as a songwriter throughout his solo career. Bob Daisley wrote the lyrics early on and other writers have been brought in subsequently. I could go on and on and about this subject.

Frank Sinatra couldn't play an instrument and never composed music but in his vast arrogance, suggested that HE received publishing royalties, which are reserved for songwriters and composers only, because HE made the songs famous.

Unfortunately, managers and other artists picked up on this notion down the road and said "I own 50% of whatever you write and record for ME".

The bottom line is that Thriller was a culmination of the greatest musicians and Los Angeles session players the world had ever heard in one singular record. The producers were top notch, from Quincy to Swedien to Gattaca, acting as "engineers" on an amazing record.

[Gadzooks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Frank Sinatra couldn't play an instrument and never composed music but in his vast arrogance, suggested that HE received publishing royalties, which are reserved for songwriters and composers only, because HE made the songs famous.

Unfortunately, managers and other artists picked up on this notion down the road and said "I own 50% of whatever you write and record for ME".

Paul Anka is probably the greatest victim of this sort of mentality as far as I can see. He wrote the theme for “The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson” and was strong armed out of any royalties. They all went to Johnny…
Neil Diamond is on the opposite end of the scale where he receives royalties left and right for songs he wrote for other people where no one knows he wrote them.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

Paul Anka is probably the greatest victim of this sort of mentality as far as I can see. He wrote the theme for “The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson” and was strong armed out of any royalties. They all went to Johnny…

Actually, this is false.

The Johnny Carson Show theme was an instrumental version of an Anka song called "Toot Sweet". Anka received his Writer's share of the income but it's likely that since it was used by Carson's production company, it collected the Publisher's Share.

This is standard practice. There are very few production companies that allow composers to participate in Publishing royalties at a 50% rate, let alone, 100%.

Song shares are typically distributed as follows:

50% Writer, 50% Publisher. If Johnny Carson's company published the song, they'd be entitled to 100% of the Publisher's earnings. The writer, Paul Anka, would be entitled to 100% of the Writer's share of earnings.

It's rare in Film & TV that the writer would get a percentage of the Publisher's portion but if so, the equation for royalties would be as follows:

50% Writer's Share: Anka
25% Publisher's Share: Carson
25% Publisher's Share (Anka's Publishing Company).

Originally Posted by Gadzooks

Neil Diamond is on the opposite end of the scale where he receives royalties left and right for songs he wrote for other people where no one knows he wrote them.

But that doesn't mean that he's collecting Publisher's Share. If those songs were considered "Work For Hire", he'd only be entitled on Writer's Share.

It's a really tricky, complicated business.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Okay, here goes:

1. Toto members were session players on every Thriller track, whether it was Lukather, Steve Pocaro, Jeff Pocao, David Paich, etc. and so on. Other great players included Dean Parks, Michael Boddicker and basically the "Who's who" of the LA Session scene.

2. As far as production is concerned, Thriller featured the greatest session players and arrangers of all time including Jerry Hey, Dean Parks, David Foster (who was later a brilliant producer), Humberto Gattica and the amazing Bruce Swedien, who recorded Michael's vocals with a $150 dollar microphone at the time ($349 now), the Shure SM7. Everyone who's ever watched a radio broadcast or been in a radio booth knows the SM7.

Michael was the magic.

3. Michael was not a musician. He couldn't play any instrument. Therefore, he couldn't compose music, hence he didn't actually write every song in which he was listed as writer.

Ghost writers wrote the record and those ghost writers were Toto. This is not uncommon. Ozzy Osbourne can't play an instrument and doesn't write lyrics, yet he's listed as a songwriter throughout his solo career. Bob Daisley wrote the lyrics early on and other writers have been brought in subsequently. I could go on and on and about this subject.

Frank Sinatra couldn't play an instrument and never composed music but in his vast arrogance, suggested that HE received publishing royalties, which are reserved for songwriters and composers only, because HE made the songs famous.

Unfortunately, managers and other artists picked up on this notion down the road and said "I own 50% of whatever you write and record for ME".

The bottom line is that Thriller was a culmination of the greatest musicians and Los Angeles session players the world had ever heard in one singular record. The producers were top notch, from Quincy to Swedien to Gattaca, acting as "engineers" on an amazing record.

Facsinating stuff Dane. Thanks. The songs were great of course, but I think what really put that album over the top was the music videos and MJ's dancing of course. The music video scene was just starting to explode and those videos were true innovations at the time. It was like a perfect storm of things.

[KC Dan]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Ghost writers wrote the record and those ghost writers were Toto.

Yep, dead on. I just saw Toto in Scottsdale this fall and got the VIP treatment. Spoke to Lukather and Paich about Thriller. Told me that they had a blast writing the songs and said they didn't have any misgivings about not getting widespread acclaim for their work on that huge album. Luke did note that he misses the fact that there really are not the opportunities for session work like the old days. He said he used to do 50 or so projects every year an dnow he is down to 1-3 per year