Any fishkeepers here? Saltwater or freshwater

[mr. tegu]

We just bought a house and I will be wanting to set up an aquarium again. I have everything a person could possibly need for freshwater aquariums, including an abundance of nice size aquariums to choose from.

We are debating whether to go with freshwater or saltwater so I have some questions for anyone with experience with saltwater or both.

How much extra product do I need to have saltwater instead of freshwater? Can I simply use the freshwater pumps, heaters, etc.?

Do regular aquariums work for saltwater? I know that in the stores the saltwater tanks all have some different looking features to them as far as their setup and suppport systems.

Are the freshwater acccessories such as plants and rock okay?

Also, how are the prices for fish? I know they are a little more pricey, but what would I be looking at to have a nice full 65 gallon aquarium? And along those lines, do you need a quarantine tank?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

How much extra product do I need to have saltwater instead of freshwater? Can I simply use the freshwater pumps, heaters, etc.?

I'm certainly not a saltwater expert.

Most of the extra products you'll need are due to the difference in water chemistry. You'll need a source of calcium and you'll probably need a protein skimmer. You'll also need test kits specific to saltwater chemistry.

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Do regular aquariums work for saltwater? I know that in the stores the saltwater tanks all have some different looking features to them as far as their setup and suppport systems.

I don't think there's any difference, no.

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Are the freshwater acccessories such as plants and rock okay?

I would think artificial ornaments are fine either way. Beware of actual rocks, for both fresh and saltwater. They can leech into the water, changing the chemistry.

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Also, how are the prices for fish? I know they are a little more pricey, but what would I be looking at to have a nice full 65 gallon aquarium? And along those lines, do you need a quarantine tank?

Any help would be much appreciated.

My experiense is that saltwater fish are MUCH more expensive and for that reason alone, you absolutely must have a quarantine tank.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

We just bought a house and I will be wanting to set up an aquarium again. I have everything a person could possibly need for freshwater aquariums, including an abundance of nice size aquariums to choose from.

We are debating whether to go with freshwater or saltwater so I have some questions for anyone with experience with saltwater or both.

How much extra product do I need to have saltwater instead of freshwater? Can I simply use the freshwater pumps, heaters, etc.?

Do regular aquariums work for saltwater? I know that in the stores the saltwater tanks all have some different looking features to them as far as their setup and suppport systems.

Are the freshwater acccessories such as plants and rock okay?

Also, how are the prices for fish? I know they are a little more pricey, but what would I be looking at to have a nice full 65 gallon aquarium? And along those lines, do you need a quarantine tank?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Heaters can work, but a good saltwater tank is going to need quite a bit more water flow to keep the algae down. And no, you don't want to use the plants and rock because it is unlikely to be a healthy setup.

A healthy saltwater tank needs to have a great deal of live rock (porous rock) to allow bacteria, etc... to grow and certain types of algae for most attractive reef fish to graze on. If you don't have good water flow, that algae will get a little out of hand (as will things like cyanobacteria).

Freshwater can be done pretty well with a couple of Penguin bio-wheel pumps and little else. For saltwater you're going to probably want a sump setup to allow for plenty of water movement and a haven for bacteria. You'll definitely need a protein skimmer as well; it's the most critical element of a decent saltwater setup.

Oh, and the light is absolutely critical in a saltwater setup whereas I never noticed a huge difference with my cichlid tanks.

A slightly cheaper marine setup would be a FOWLR setup (fish only with live rock). You don't need the high intensity lights because you aren't growing corals. You can have some of the larger angel-fish and more predatory fish like puffers, etc..., but you can't have most of those little reef fish that look so pretty in the fish store. And ultimately the reef tanks are just more attractive than the FOWLR setups.

Your question is a little too broad to give you the best advise, but ultimately I wouldn't use any of the rock from a freshwater setup because it's not going to be porous enough to act as good seed rock. Frankly, you'll want to go to a store and buy 'live rock' first anyway...lots of it; in a 65 gallon tank I'd go with about 100 lbs of live rock and a deep sand bottom. Alternatively, get 10 lbs of live rock and 90 lbs of good, porous seed rock and the seed rock will eventually go 'live' when the critters living in the live rock move in. Don't use the plants because they look tacky in a marine aquarium, IMO. But hey, that's ultimately your call.

The fish are much more expensive. A 'cheap' saltwater fish that's not an evil-ass damsel is going to cost you $20; something like a Royal Gramma or a clown (though a clown is a damsel, so realize that it might turn into an asshole). A 'normal' priced fish like a Coral Beauty or a Foxface would be in the 30-40 range. A mid-range fish like nice hippo or Kole tang would be 40-60. The most I've ever spent on a fish was $80 on a big Naso and about the same on a tiny little mystery wrasse when they were damn expensive.

Something like a Hawaiin black tang or an achilles tang can run you in the $300+ range. At 65 gallons, they aren't a good idea.

A saltwater tank requires some homework that a freshwater doesn't. You need to know more about how big the fish will get because they're much more likely to outgrow the tank. They are more prone to stress-related diseases if you don't have a decent sized tank as well.

If you want to go saltwater, do it right. I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 90 and ultimately I think a 125 or better is the way to go because that's when you get to the 6 foot wide tanks that give ample swimming room. Moreover, the more tank volume you have, the less prone the tank is to spikes in levels and therefore the more healthy it is.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Heaters can work, but a good saltwater tank is going to need quite a bit more water flow to keep the algae down. And no, you don't want to use the plants and rock because it is unlikely to be a healthy setup.

A healthy saltwater tank needs to have a great deal of live rock (porous rock) to allow bacteria, etc... to grow and certain types of algae for most attractive reef fish to graze on. If you don't have good water flow, that algae will get a little out of hand (as will things like cyanobacteria).

First, thanks for the long reply! I was just thinking about a heater in terms of keeping the water at the appropriate temperature. When you say "can work" does that mean it isn't needed?

I had actually looked at the live rock a little bit and done some research on that. I do like the way it looks but hadn't thought of the benefits to the fish. It sounds like it isn't a must but is certainly better. And it sounds like the pumps are definitely much different than the typical biowheel hanging on the back which I would have to get.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Freshwater can be done pretty well with a couple of Penguin bio-wheel pumps and little else. For saltwater you're going to probably want a sump setup to allow for plenty of water movement and a haven for bacteria. You'll definitely need a protein skimmer as well; it's the most critical element of a decent saltwater setup.

Oh, and the light is absolutely critical in a saltwater setup whereas I never noticed a huge difference with my cichlid tanks.

A slightly cheaper marine setup would be a FOWLR setup (fish only with live rock). You don't need the high intensity lights because you aren't growing corals. You can have some of the larger angel-fish and more predatory fish like puffers, etc..., but you can't have most of those little reef fish that look so pretty in the fish store. And ultimately the reef tanks are just more attractive than the FOWLR setups.

Your question is a little too broad to give you the best advise, but ultimately I wouldn't use any of the rock from a freshwater setup because it's not going to be porous enough to act as good seed rock. Frankly, you'll want to go to a store and buy 'live rock' first anyway...lots of it; in a 65 gallon tank I'd go with about 100 lbs of live rock and a deep sand bottom. Alternatively, get 10 lbs of live rock and 90 lbs of good, porous seed rock and the seed rock will eventually go 'live' when the critters living in the live rock move in. Don't use the plants because they look tacky in a marine aquarium, IMO. But hey, that's ultimately your call.

So I just did a quick search of protein skimmers and those don't come cheap. I am glad you and htismaqe mentioned that because it is one of those things I may have tried to skip on if I deemed it through my inexperience to be unnecessary. So a sump pump is different than the protein skimmer? Is a sump pump the one that is usually under the main tank and always looks like it is filled with algae and calcium build up?

I have seen the aquariums that are essentially set up to look just like a freshwater aquarium as far as design and features and they don't look quite as good for sure without the corals. It seems like those aren't as versatile either as far as what can live in them. What do you mean by seed rock going 'live'?

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The fish are much more expensive. A 'cheap' saltwater fish that's not an evil-ass damsel is going to cost you $20; something like a Royal Gramma or a clown (though a clown is a damsel, so realize that it might turn into an asshole). A 'normal' priced fish like a Coral Beauty or a Foxface would be in the 30-40 range. A mid-range fish like nice hippo or Kole tang would be 40-60. The most I've ever spent on a fish was $80 on a big Naso and about the same on a tiny little mystery wrasse when they were damn expensive.

Something like a Hawaiin black tang or an achilles tang can run you in the $300+ range. At 65 gallons, they aren't a good idea.

A saltwater tank requires some homework that a freshwater doesn't. You need to know more about how big the fish will get because they're much more likely to outgrow the tank. They are more prone to stress-related diseases if you don't have a decent sized tank as well.

If you want to go saltwater, do it right. I wouldn't recommend anything less than a 90 and ultimately I think a 125 or better is the way to go because that's when you get to the 6 foot wide tanks that give ample swimming room. Moreover, the more tank volume you have, the less prone the tank is to spikes in levels and therefore the more healthy it is.

I wasn't aware that the fish were that expensive. I was thinking I could get most of what I wanted for under $40. I know I definitely would need to do a lot of homework prior but this is a great overview as far as realistic needs and expectations. I really want a saltwater tank but it certainly sounds like I would be better off waiting to buy a full blown saltwater specific setup in a larger size. I don't want to invest in a tank that isn't adequate just to have a $60 fish die on me.

I am perfectly happy to do freshwater again but I was curious as to what to expect if I wanted to transition and judging by the responses, there is much more to it than I would have thought. This is a great place to start though. Knowing what I need is the most confusing part for a beginner saltwater but I think I have a pretty good idea now.