Life The Science of being nice - Page 2

tooge · 01-31-2013, 10:54 AM

Saw on on the Science Channel last night a very interesting episode about benevolence and how it has been mathmatically proven that people are "kind" and will sacrifice their own needs, including their own lives, not for the act of being a good person, but because it is increases the likelihood that they will pass their genetic profile on.

It involved a Scientist named Price, that got into Genetics and Evolution, but was, by nature, a mathematician.

He looked at natural selection and the evolution of "kind" behavior, and found that it is genetially beneficial to be kind.

The glaring example was a mother that would throw herself in front of the moving bus in order to save her children. The act, of course, improves the odds that her prodigy carry on and pass her genetic material on. Everyone with the "kind" gene, would have the same advantage.

So, Price applies mathmatics to the whole idea, gets published, and becomes somewhat famous. Problem is, he can't fathom that we cant simply be "kind" and selfless because we want to, and that bothers him. So, he spends the rest of his life trying to debunk his own theorem by giving away all possessions to others and taking in homeless people and letting them steal from him, all in the attempt to show that he was being nice by choice. He ultimately goes insane when he realizes that his being nice "by choice" was only a way he could have been disprove his own theorem, which was what he was trying to do anyway, which proves his theorem. Weird, but anyhow, the guy ends up offing himself.

His theory is still one of the backbones of behavioral evolution taught today.

Cephalic Trauma · 01-31-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooge

Actually, it's being altruistic, rather than just "nice". Like the honeybees. They off themselves while protecting the hive, but in the long run, they are passing on "like" genetics.

Yeah, it's the Kin selection hypothesis of evolutionary biology.

I had a long response typed out on why I don't think it holds much weight in humans, but decided against posting it because it's not that big of a deal.

Suffice it to say that our ability to make complex decisions and our cognitive malleability at an early age can add some seemingly unanswerable questions for the theory.

Bump · 01-31-2013, 04:35 PM

I dont think those genes were ever passed on to anybody in Boston.

Bump · 01-31-2013, 04:37 PM

But people in Boston are smarter than Kansans for sure though. So, it's a trade off.

In Kansas, people are generally nicer, but dumber.

In Boston people are assholes, but smarter.

After living here for a few years, I can say with confidence that the dumb people here are still smarter than the average people of Kansas.

But I was happier in Kansas for sure. I felt like a genius, but here I'm just significantly above average.

BlackHelicopters · 01-31-2013, 04:41 PM

This is the nicest thread ever.

WhiteWhale · 01-31-2013, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMAC

By dick, you mean confident. Correct, unconfident guys get laid less.

That's because confidence allows you to try more often. It really doesn't do shit to your success rate.

The reason women don't like the 'nice guy' is because they're pussies in bed. Guys who are assholes tend to be more dominant in the sack and that's what women love.

You don't have to be 'a dick'. You have to be assertive, or as I like to say... a man. It's easy to be assertive and still polite and friendly.

WhiteWhale · 01-31-2013, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bump

But people in Boston are smarter than Kansans for sure though. So, it's a trade off.

In Kansas, people are generally nicer, but dumber.

In Boston people are assholes, but smarter.

After living here for a few years, I can say with confidence that the dumb people here are still smarter than the average people of Kansas.

But I was happier in Kansas for sure. I felt like a genius, but here I'm just significantly above average.

People who are smart don't tell other people how smart they are. Other people tell THEM how smart they are.

Fish · 01-31-2013, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bump

But people in Boston are smarter than Kansans for sure though. So, it's a trade off.

In Kansas, people are generally nicer, but dumber.

In Boston people are assholes, but smarter.

After living here for a few years, I can say with confidence that the dumb people here are still smarter than the average people of Kansas.

But I was happier in Kansas for sure. I felt like a genius, but here I'm just significantly above average.

.... you bet you were Champ!

Ebolapox · 01-31-2013, 05:00 PM

this is the basis of sociobiology. it has its roots in game theory... it makes sense on a fundamental level, but there are certain human behaviors and situations where it breaks down. it's not an all-encompassing theory by any means, but it's downright intriguing the implications of it.

if this interests you, go read 'the selfish gene,' 'the red queen' (richard dawkins and matt ridley are the authors, respectively). both are great and go into a bit of depth if you have any prior knowledge. both are written for those who have a BIT of knowledge, but the layman can understand them with a bit of effort.

Pablo · 01-31-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bump

But people in Boston are smarter than Kansans for sure though. So, it's a trade off.

In Kansas, people are generally nicer, but dumber.

In Boston people are assholes, but smarter.

After living here for a few years, I can say with confidence that the dumb people here are still smarter than the average people of Kansas.

But I was happier in Kansas for sure. I felt like a genius, but here I'm just significantly above average.

Nobody on this board thinks you're intelligent besides you.

Stewie · 01-31-2013, 05:04 PM

It's interesting that this is posted now with the passing of Adele Hall in KC recently. She a benevolent giver... using all her husband's money.

Ebolapox · 01-31-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notorious

Yet some women go for the selfish jerkoff.

Sounds about right.

there are other factors at play here... let me know if you want me to explain, or if a simple HAR HAR HAR would suffice.

Ebolapox · 01-31-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Dominance = ability to pass on genes = biological/psychological reason...

not that simple, but you're part of the way there.

KChiefer · 01-31-2013, 05:07 PM

I missed that. Will have to look for a rerun. I recently downloaded a bbc program called "Dangerous Knowledge" that looked at four mathematicians that went mad and killed themselves.

http://www.dnatube.com/video/6065/Da...e-BBC-Part-110

KChiefer · 01-31-2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bump

In Boston people are assholes, but smatah.

FYP

ClevelandBronco · 01-31-2013, 06:50 PM

Link to download an NPR Radiolab episode that includes a segment on George Price ("The Price of Altruism"):

http://www.radiolab.org/2010/dec/14/

If you don't listen to Radiolab, you're missing some of the best work that's ever been done in that medium, IMHO.

01-31-2013, 10:54 AM
tooge MVP Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Liberty, MO Casino cash: $744112	The Science of being nice Saw on on the Science Channel last night a very interesting episode about benevolence and how it has been mathmatically proven that people are "kind" and will sacrifice their own needs, including their own lives, not for the act of being a good person, but because it is increases the likelihood that they will pass their genetic profile on. It involved a Scientist named Price, that got into Genetics and Evolution, but was, by nature, a mathematician. He looked at natural selection and the evolution of "kind" behavior, and found that it is genetially beneficial to be kind. The glaring example was a mother that would throw herself in front of the moving bus in order to save her children. The act, of course, improves the odds that her prodigy carry on and pass her genetic material on. Everyone with the "kind" gene, would have the same advantage. So, Price applies mathmatics to the whole idea, gets published, and becomes somewhat famous. Problem is, he can't fathom that we cant simply be "kind" and selfless because we want to, and that bothers him. So, he spends the rest of his life trying to debunk his own theorem by giving away all possessions to others and taking in homeless people and letting them steal from him, all in the attempt to show that he was being nice by choice. He ultimately goes insane when he realizes that his being nice "by choice" was only a way he could have been disprove his own theorem, which was what he was trying to do anyway, which proves his theorem. Weird, but anyhow, the guy ends up offing himself. His theory is still one of the backbones of behavioral evolution taught today.
Posts: 17,151

01-31-2013, 04:35 PM	#17
Bump YOU take YOUR seat Join Date: Nov 2007 Casino cash: $-1524895	I dont think those genes were ever passed on to anybody in Boston.
Posts: 38,141

01-31-2013, 04:37 PM	#18
Bump YOU take YOUR seat Join Date: Nov 2007 Casino cash: $-1524895	But people in Boston are smarter than Kansans for sure though. So, it's a trade off. In Kansas, people are generally nicer, but dumber. In Boston people are assholes, but smarter. After living here for a few years, I can say with confidence that the dumb people here are still smarter than the average people of Kansas. But I was happier in Kansas for sure. I felt like a genius, but here I'm just significantly above average.
Posts: 38,141

01-31-2013, 04:41 PM	#19
BlackHelicopters Spiraling down the Drain Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Dante's Ninth Circle Casino cash: $-769412	This is the nicest thread ever. __________________ "We're both part of the same hypocrisy, Senator, but never think it applies to my family." "Fredo. You are my brother, and I love you. But never take sides against the Family again. Ever." 2019 Adopt a Chief - Travis Kelce #87
Posts: 33,301

01-31-2013, 05:00 PM	#23
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $-1650097	this is the basis of sociobiology. it has its roots in game theory... it makes sense on a fundamental level, but there are certain human behaviors and situations where it breaks down. it's not an all-encompassing theory by any means, but it's downright intriguing the implications of it. if this interests you, go read 'the selfish gene,' 'the red queen' (richard dawkins and matt ridley are the authors, respectively). both are great and go into a bit of depth if you have any prior knowledge. both are written for those who have a BIT of knowledge, but the layman can understand them with a bit of effort.
Posts: 26,518

01-31-2013, 05:04 PM	#25
Stewie MVP Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West of the Equator Casino cash: $-1680099	It's interesting that this is posted now with the passing of Adele Hall in KC recently. She a benevolent giver... using all her husband's money.
Posts: 13,852

01-31-2013, 05:07 PM	#28
KChiefer Fantastic Planeteer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Champaign, IL Casino cash: $10006721	I missed that. Will have to look for a rerun. I recently downloaded a bbc program called "Dangerous Knowledge" that looked at four mathematicians that went mad and killed themselves. http://www.dnatube.com/video/6065/Da...e-BBC-Part-110 Last edited by KChiefer; 01-31-2013 at 05:14 PM..
Posts: 4,943

01-31-2013, 06:50 PM	#30
ClevelandBronco I'm with the banned. Join Date: Sep 2006 Casino cash: $5658955	Link to download an NPR Radiolab episode that includes a segment on George Price ("The Price of Altruism"): http://www.radiolab.org/2010/dec/14/ If you don't listen to Radiolab, you're missing some of the best work that's ever been done in that medium, IMHO. __________________ "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth ..." – Pope Saint John Paul II
Posts: 28,113