Chiefs The "IF no QB with the 1st pick" poll - Page 19

Frankie · 02-08-2013, 01:23 PM

Scenario (hypothetical):

It has become obvious that the Chiefs will pass on a QB with the top pick and will address the QB need (a) later in round 1, (b) in round 2, or (c) by signing a veteran. No trade down is planned either.

There seems to be the following three names on top of the draft. Among these three which one would you want the Chiefs to use their 1st pick on:

1- LT Luke Joekel (meaning Albert will walk)

2- DE Star Lotulelei (meaning T-Jax will be cut)

3- Jarvis Jones (meaning we are thinking transition to 43 soon)

4- Other (name and explain)

KEEP IN MIND

This is not a Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson discussion. Keep that argument in the hundreds of other threads about it. This is about IF WE DON'T PICK A QB AT THE TOP! Just curious to know which of the picks mentioned makes more sense compared to the others IYO. If you are a staunch Geno fan, for example, this does not paint you as a traitor to the cause.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-09-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

errrr, wrong.

elway I can't attest to--I was less than four months old.

Elway was drafted by the Yankees and the Colts. The guy was a stud. There was no way he going to fail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

manning was such a sure-thing that OVER HALF OF THE NFL GMS WOULD HAVE PICKED RYAN LEAF OVER HIM

And everyone one of those GM's would have been fired, just like Beathard was for reaching on Leaf.

The stupidity of GM's doesn't negate the fact that there was absolutely NO WAY Peyton Manning was going to bust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

eli and andrew luck were both GOOD coming out, but certainly not 'sure things.' as close as you can get, but NOT sure things.

Puh-leeese. Who in their right mind felt that Andrew Luck was anything other than the best QB available in the draft since Peyton Manning?

NO chance that Luck was a bust. None, zero, zilch.

ClevelandBronco · 02-09-2013, 06:03 PM

Draft Geno to play both ways, as a left tackle and a hybrid DE/LB pass rush specialist. If that doesn't work out in the first 48 hours or so, shift him to quarterback and see if that position suits him better. Everybody's happy.

Ebolapox · 02-09-2013, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Elway was drafted by the Yankees and the Colts. The guy was a stud. There was no way he going to fail.

And everyone one of those GM's would have been fired, just like Beathard was for reaching on Leaf.

The stupidity of GM's doesn't negate the fact that there was absolutely NO WAY Peyton Manning was going to bust.

Puh-leeese. Who in their right mind felt that Andrew Luck was anything other than the best QB available in the draft since Peyton Manning?

NO chance that Luck was a bust. None, zero, zilch.

you're ignoring the real issue here--you're applying all of your analysis through the lens of HINDSIGHT, man. since none of us has a time machine, OF COURSE THERE WAS NO CHANCE THEY'D BUST

yeah--there was 99% of a chance they weren't going to bust... but in NO world is that EVER 100%. shit happens, man. do we consider percy snow a bust? he was a HELL of a linebacker in college... but, never reached his potential (due to a freak injury, but... SHIT HAPPENS).

hindsight is a bitch, and you remove all doubt when you look at this through that lens. however, DURING AND BEFORE THE DRAFT, hindsight is NOT available.

how does this apply to geno smith? WE CAN'T LOOK BACK IN HINDSIGHT BECAUSE WE AREN'T IN THE ****ING FUTURE.

take-home message? feel free to say that those guys were CAN'T MISS until you're blue in the face. I'll just sit back here and giggle at the fact that you don't realize the logical fallacy you're falling victim to.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-09-2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

you're ignoring the real issue here--you're applying all of your analysis through the lens of HINDSIGHT, man. since none of us has a time machine, OF COURSE THERE WAS NO CHANCE THEY'D BUST

That's really not true. I'm not using hindsight.

I was a teenager in 1983, had been to countless Chiefs games and hell, even watched the USFL! There was no one like John Elway before or pretty much since.

Note I didn't mention Steve Young, even though he signed a $42 million dollar contract with the Los Angeles Express. He was definitely a work in progress unlike Elway, who willed his team to three Super Bowls and won his final two.

Anyone that doubted Manning was an idiot. Anyone that followed him closely knew of and likely watched his father, an amazing QB that played in an era before free agency. Same with Luck. His father was an NFL QB, successful businessman and groomed his son to be an NFL QB, who played like an NFL QB at Stanford.

Sometimes, guys ARE sure things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

yeah--there was 99% of a chance they weren't going to bust... but in NO world is that EVER 100%. shit happens, man. do we consider percy snow a bust? he was a HELL of a linebacker in college... but, never reached his potential (due to a freak injury, but... SHIT HAPPENS).

Percy Snow started kicking ass in the 11th game of his rookie season. That defense would have been even better had he not injured himself in a dopey moped accident in the following training camp.

But that said, he didn't fail because of ability, he failed due to a freak injury, so it doesn't really count in this discussion. Furthermore, he wasn't the #1 overall choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

hindsight is a bitch, and you remove all doubt when you look at this through that lens. however, DURING AND BEFORE THE DRAFT, hindsight is NOT available.

Again, I'm not using hindsight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

how does this apply to geno smith? WE CAN'T LOOK BACK IN HINDSIGHT BECAUSE WE AREN'T IN THE ****ING FUTURE.

Who said anything about Eugene Smith?

Seriously, I think many people here are so infatuated with him, that they ****ing wet dream at night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

take-home message? feel free to say that those guys were CAN'T MISS until you're blue in the face. I'll just sit back here and giggle at the fact that you don't realize the logical fallacy you're falling victim to.

Agree to disagree.

It's not a fallacy, it's a fact. Now, maybe not everyone in the NFL or who watches the NFL felt that Elway, Manning and Luck were "Can't Miss" or "Sure Thing" players, but there was certainly a consensus about each of those guys that they WERE can't miss players.

Anyone who thought otherwise was ****ing stupid.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-09-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

Draft Geno to play both ways, as a left tackle and a hybrid DE/LB pass rush specialist. If that doesn't work out in the first 48 hours or so, shift him to quarterback and see if that position suits him better. Everybody's happy.

The way he's talked about on this forum, I'm surprised that the other 52 guys are even necessary

FloridaMan88 · 02-09-2013, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B14ckmon

If Geno sucks in the NFL, I fully expect you Genonites to admit how dumb you were.

Jagwads GM wants to build around Blaine Gabbert.

Good luck with that.

**RealSNR** · 02-09-2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I don't know why you're asking me this question.

Because your attempt to turn back the dial on the Geno/QB excitement to a reasonable level to your liking is dumb and stupid.

I know you're on the same page as us when it comes to a QB, but in your attempt to talk football, you're inadvertently giving credence to the fallacious "BPA in a vacuum" theory. That's a bad argument is all I'm trying to say. It seems like some skepticism should be taken when analyzing the Chiefs picking Geno, but there really is none to be applied.

He is THE ONLY pick that makes sense. I'm sorry you can't see that.

Ebolapox · 02-09-2013, 07:09 PM

let's look at other can't miss guys that come to mind:

reggie bush
tony mandarich
robert gallery
charles rodgers
heath shuler
rick mirer
tim couch
bruce pickens
rich campbell (green bay packers)
david carr
hell... you can throw aundray bruce on that list

ALL OF THOSE GUYS were considered can't miss at the time they were drafted. ALL.OF.THEM.

can't miss guys miss ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME

**RealSNR** · 02-09-2013, 07:09 PM

Remember when we drafted Glenn Dorsey? Everybody said he was a sure thing.

Robert Gallery was also a sure thing.

Tony Mandarich

Keyshawn Johnson

Non-QBs who are considered "sure things" at the very top of the draft bust out ALL THE GODDAMN TIME.

Why is Luke Joeckel any different? He shouldn't be treated any differently. He's NOT a sure thing.

So how about we just take the QB?

**RealSNR** · 02-09-2013, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

let's look at other can't miss guys that come to mind:

reggie bush
tony mandarich
robert gallery
charles rodgers
heath shuler
rick mirer
tim couch
bruce pickens
rich campbell (green bay packers)
david carr
hell... you can throw aundray bruce on that list

ALL OF THOSE GUYS were considered can't miss at the time they were drafted. ALL.OF.THEM.

can't miss guys miss ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME

You fiend.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-09-2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebolapox

let's look at other can't miss guys that come to mind:

reggie bush
tony mandarich
robert gallery
charles rodgers
heath shuler
rick mirer
tim couch
bruce pickens
rich campbell (green bay packers)
david carr
hell... you can throw aundray bruce on that list

ALL OF THOSE GUYS were considered can't miss at the time they were drafted. ALL.OF.THEM.

can't miss guys miss ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME

Riiiight

Ebolapox · 02-09-2013, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Riiiight

comment in derision all you want. doesn't make it any less true.

Pasta Little Brioni · 02-09-2013, 07:13 PM

But, but, but he's a safe pick that helps maximize value or some other mumbo jumbo bullshit excuse to not take a QB.

**RealSNR** · 02-09-2013, 07:14 PM

Hey guys remember when we took Tyson Jackson at #3 overall because the media claimed Pioli wanted the "safe" pick over the "risky" QB Mark Sanchez?

How well did that "safe" pick work out for us?

Ebolapox · 02-09-2013, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Hey guys remember when we took Tyson Jackson at #3 overall because the media claimed ***** wanted the "safe" pick over the "risky" QB Mark Sanchez?

How well did that "safe" pick work out for us?

OMGZ BUT SANCHEZ SUX SO WE MADE RIGHT DECISOIN HAHAHAHAHA

View Poll Results: If no QB then who?
LT Luke Joekel	40	31.01%
DE Star Lotulelei	30	23.26%
LB Jarvis Jones	19	14.73%
Other (who, why?)	40	31.01%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

02-08-2013, 01:23 PM
Frankie Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	The "IF no QB with the 1st pick" poll Scenario (hypothetical): It has become obvious that the Chiefs will pass on a QB with the top pick and will address the QB need (a) later in round 1, (b) in round 2, or (c) by signing a veteran. No trade down is planned either. There seems to be the following three names on top of the draft. Among these three which one would you want the Chiefs to use their 1st pick on: 1- LT Luke Joekel (meaning Albert will walk) 2- DE Star Lotulelei (meaning T-Jax will be cut) 3- Jarvis Jones (meaning we are thinking transition to 43 soon) 4- Other (name and explain) KEEP IN MIND This is not a Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson discussion. Keep that argument in the hundreds of other threads about it. This is about IF WE DON'T PICK A QB AT THE TOP! Just curious to know which of the picks mentioned makes more sense compared to the others IYO. If you are a staunch Geno fan, for example, this does not paint you as a traitor to the cause.
Posts: 26,959

02-09-2013, 06:03 PM	#272
ClevelandBronco I'm with the banned. Join Date: Sep 2006 Casino cash: $5658955	Draft Geno to play both ways, as a left tackle and a hybrid DE/LB pass rush specialist. If that doesn't work out in the first 48 hours or so, shift him to quarterback and see if that position suits him better. Everybody's happy. __________________ "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth ..." – Pope Saint John Paul II
Posts: 28,113

02-09-2013, 07:09 PM	#278
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $139903	let's look at other can't miss guys that come to mind: reggie bush tony mandarich robert gallery charles rodgers heath shuler rick mirer tim couch bruce pickens rich campbell (green bay packers) david carr hell... you can throw aundray bruce on that list ALL OF THOSE GUYS were considered can't miss at the time they were drafted. ALL.OF.THEM. can't miss guys miss ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME
Posts: 26,460

02-09-2013, 07:09 PM	#279
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $415208	Remember when we drafted Glenn Dorsey? Everybody said he was a sure thing. Robert Gallery was also a sure thing. Tony Mandarich Keyshawn Johnson Non-QBs who are considered "sure things" at the very top of the draft bust out ALL THE GODDAMN TIME. Why is Luke Joeckel any different? He shouldn't be treated any differently. He's NOT a sure thing. So how about we just take the QB?
Posts: 92,118

02-09-2013, 07:13 PM	#283
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $2058880	But, but, but he's a safe pick that helps maximize value or some other mumbo jumbo bullshit excuse to not take a QB. __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 71,807

02-09-2013, 07:14 PM	#284
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $415208	Hey guys remember when we took Tyson Jackson at #3 overall because the media claimed Pioli wanted the "safe" pick over the "risky" QB Mark Sanchez? How well did that "safe" pick work out for us?
Posts: 92,118