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02-24-2013, 09:28 PM | #31 | |
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All in all not a bad post, but to get a price around a new Speed3, he would have to buy at least a 2 year old STi with around 25k-40k miles. |
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02-24-2013, 09:29 PM | #32 |
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I just row through the gears 1-6. My shift point usually hinges between 2500-3000 rpms. But I also drive a 5.0 and rarely have to downshift.
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02-24-2013, 09:33 PM | #33 |
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I just go based on what I want to do. I downshift like normal. If I'm downshift from a good chunk of speed ill blip the throttle a bit to match the rpms
I don't worry about excessive shifting etc. only have a 5 SPF though.
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02-24-2013, 10:04 PM | #34 | |
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Yes, they make very good power opened up, but how are you comparing it? Based on a WHP percentage of stock versus modded? I can make more power for the money mod vs. mod with an STI than you can with an MS3. It is limited, the motor itself is limited by comparison. If you keep it specifically to bolt on modifications, the MS3 is a very proven WHP production car, it, however, does not surpass the Evo or the STI in that argument. They trump the MS3 all day long in terms of raw power for the budget. I'm also saying this compared to a 2006 STI which is about the 17-20k area with anywhere from 40-70k miles. A 2 year old STI is still in the 30+ and if I'm not mistaken, the MS3's are around 23-26k new. And I'm specifically using the gen 2 MS3 as the comparison, not the Gen 1. In terms of power, I've taken a lightly modded 2 valve mustang GT and beaten quite a few heavily modded Gen2 MS3's. Why? Traction primarily. They pull hard up top because by comparison, they have more power than I do in my 2 valve, but I have a RWD v8 with a solid axle, so I'll put 2-3 cars on them instantly out of the hole on all season radials, and then just cruise to victory. From a roll, They put about a half a car, or a car on me from 45 mph to 110MPH. In my eyes, the MS3 is more comparable to the SRT4 than any car out there, and in my opinion, a much better option than an SRT4. However, all of that said, I disagree with you heavily on the argument that the community and mods are plentiful for the MS3's right now. It is a new car, there is years of R&D left to do on them before the market gets plentiful. Understand for a moment, that I've modded Mustangs, Camaros, Hondas, DSM's, etc. Those markets are the standard of "plentiful", not the MS3 community, or even the MS community as a whole. It is a very new, very infantile market at the moment. I hear guys talking about paying 1300 dollars for 45 WHP, where 1300 dollars in a 91 Eclipse GSX equates to about 145 WHP, or about 230 WHP in a terminator cobra. |
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02-24-2013, 10:05 PM | #35 |
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Blipping the throttle is an entry into a driving technique called "Rev matching" or "Compression deceleration", it saves clutch and transmission life, and is the PROPER way to drive a manual transmission. It doesn't matter where I drive or what I'm driving, if it has a manual transmission, I rev match it, even 4 cylinder rangers haha.
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02-24-2013, 10:06 PM | #36 |
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Love the 6-speed in the Miata. Have to keep reminding myself not to try to go to sixth when I'm driving the wife's 5-speed though. Don't think it would be good to shift into reverse at about 50+ mph. *grin*
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02-24-2013, 10:07 PM | #37 |
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When I picked up my first 6 speed, It took me about two weeks to use 6th gear religiously. It felt wrong going there, and I cringed every time I made the shift.
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02-24-2013, 11:06 PM | #38 |
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I have a 2013 Mazda3 with a six-speed manual. I just shift up through the gears as the RPM allows. I can be in 6th gear cruising on a boulevard at 45 mph. To get to my house, I have to turn an corner and immediately go up a fairly steep hill. I can be in 2nd up to 25 mph, because if I shift into 3rd too soon, the RPM are too low for the power I need to accelerate up the hill. There are no real rules, its more getting to know your car and what gear gives you the performance/fuel economy balance you want for a given situation.
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02-24-2013, 11:20 PM | #39 | |
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Now, if you want to go farther, then yes it's going to cost you. A front mount intercooler (absolutely necessary to push the PSI up) will cost you $1100. I never disputed the STi and Evo X don't come with more power. When you're looking at start up costs, the Speed3 is a hell of a deal. If I had more money then I would have went with an Evo X GSR. Unfortunately, I have things like bills, a family, and only one income for my family so I went with the Speed3. I really wanted a G8 GXP but all the ones that were listed within in driving distance of me were priced at "My wife wants me to sell the car but I don't want to, so it's an absurdly high price". Hopefully, GM will throw in a manual in the new version of the SS coming to the states (they aren't in the first production year), and in 3 years I'll be able to buy one as a toy to tear into. |
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02-24-2013, 11:45 PM | #40 | |
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You don't seem to have a very good grasp on "making power", which I won't fault you for, but trust me when I say this, it isn't as simple as buying a part and installing it. Every single thing you change, affects your tune. If you decide to go with a program, reflash, or standalone, it needs to be tuned, anytime the weather drops 14 degrees or the humidity rises or falls 15% from the status of when you tuned, your tune is off. Dyno time costs money, tuning time costs money. If you take it to get tuned, you're talking 300+ for a "decent" session, and about 600ish for a day of fine tuning including drivability tuning. That doesn't even include the parts you bought for the car. Now, you can "street tune", but in order to do that, you need to buy a wideband O2 sensor and unit (200 bucks) and a bung welded into the piping of your exhaust (about 45 bucks) with a cap for when the wideband isn't in there. Then you need to be able to datalog the information with a computer (100-150 on craigslist). Again, that doesn't include the cost of the part. There are those out there that will tell you that you can do a "basic tune" or a "mail in tune", but those aren't accurate, and accurate tunes are where you make power and retain reliability. The MS3 isn't anything different than any other turbo 4 cylinder. In order to make power you need to open up the exhaust from the turbo back, you need to upgrade your fuel pump and/or injectors, and you're likely going to turn the boost up, so you need to be able to adjust timing and AFR based on those three aspects. Now as far as your "internals for the fuel pump" goes, there is no such thing. And as far as needing a front mount to increase your PSI, there is no such need. You can run an infinite amount of PSI through a top mount, side mount, or front mount. The reason you upgrade to the front mount is based on the size and depth of the intercooler and its efficiency in cooling the air. Because you have a top mount intercooler, you are subject to heat dissipation from the engine directly below it, as well as ambient air temperatures literally 30+ degrees hotter on an 80 degree day. The upgrade to a front mount has nothing to do with the pressure going through, rather, being able to cool the charge further than you would be able to with a confined top mount. Now, the upgrade to the piping on the other hand, is where the PSI argument comes from. However, again, that PSI argument has nothing to do with the upgrade as you could hit 80 PSI on a top mount and on a front mount. The issue, however, is volume. Increasing a factory top mount from 1 7/8ths inch to 2 1/2 inches is going to allow a much larger volume of air to flow through the system at the same boost level. You can't really get that volume from the top mount due to space, trust me, ran into the same issue on the WRXs, despite Perrin and TurboXS making great top mount upgrades for them. However, there is a downside to the front mount upgrade, that issue being the lag you'll be adding to the car. It'll take more RPMs for the motor to reach full boost due to the increase in diameter as well as the increase in travel from a top mount to a front mount and the piping. Generally we're looking at about 300 rpms difference in hitting boost, and achieving full boost. It'll also put a bit more strain on the turbo charger because with the increased size of the intercooler and likely depth and dimensions of it, you'll incur what is called "Boost drop". Which is, the amount of PSI drop that the intercooler has at full boost based on what the inlet pressure is of the intercooler, and the outlet of the intercooler, after it goes through the tube and fin or bar and plate design. Generally, we're talking about .7-1.8 PSI drop INCREASE from a top mount to a front mount. So, instead of running say 20PSI outlet pressure on a top mount with about 21.2 inlet pressure, you're going to have to run nearly 23 PSI inlet pressure to achieve the same 20 PSI outlet pressure. As far as an evo x gsr, I'd pass and probably would have passed on an MS3 to get an Evo9 base, then again, I dislike Evo's and would have gone with a 2004-2006ish STI and had the best of everything for the same price, just older and slightly more mileage, which can be a determining factor for most. As far as the G8 GXP goes, very fun car, little bit overpriced for what it is IMO. And with Pontiac getting the axe, who knows what they ultimately do with it that chassis. It was a great design that competed on a performance level with the M3, M5, and M6 sedan variants, but wasn't even remotely close to the level of luxury and craftsmanship, which is what GM is notorious for. They'll give you the performance of the competitor, at the sacrifice of luxury and craftsmanship. Like the Camaro, Corvette, G8 GXP, etc. |
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02-25-2013, 12:00 AM | #41 | |
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Also, the Speed3's go boom if you don't upgrade the fuel pump when making mods. Autotech sells a kit that uses the existing fuel pump's shell and basically replaces everything inside of it. If you don't upgrade the fuel pump and you start boosting the PSI on the car, you will destroy your motor. I've spent a ton of time researching what I want to do to it. Fortunately, there are a couple really active Mazda forums with plenty of guys willing to post mod lists and dyno sheets. I'm also not worried about Dyno expense. I have a college buddy that owns a tuner shop. |
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02-25-2013, 12:11 AM | #42 | |
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Also, that bit about the fuel pump is inaccurate. The MS3 isn't going boom because of a fuel pump, it is going boom because owners aren't knowledgeable and paying enough attention to what counts. Tuning. If you watch your duty cycle, AFR, Timing, and Knock, you'll never go "boom" but you'll surely see tangible information at your fingertips of you overextending the limit of your current fuel pump. Also, one of the first upgrades on the list of any turbo car is an upgraded fuel pump when you decide to up the boost, that one is a no brainer. You can't just add boost and make more power. You have to add fuel and add or reduce ignition timing, sometimes even drop to a 1 step colder plug to compensate. Literally everything you touch on a car, alters the tune and AFR one way or the other. That kit you are talking about, isn't upgrading the internals of the pump, its actually utilizing the factory "hat" so that the system is plug and play (it isn't really a shell, but utilizing something already made with their application, huge difference), or minimal alteration to the unit until the major companies can get through the R&D to produce their versions. The marketplace takes time to grow like that, and in some cases companies will refrain from producing parts for certain cars due to their design and the cost for them to make an applicable product. As for your tuning hookup, there you go, for you that 1300 mark is going to be more like 650-750 bucks |
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02-25-2013, 08:04 AM | #43 | |
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02-25-2013, 08:54 AM | #44 |
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With my GTI, I skip gears. Some days, even #'s. Some days, odd #'s. Just to mix it up.
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02-25-2013, 09:51 AM | #45 |
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my 1st is so short in the Rabbit that, unless on ainclined hill, I just start out in 2nd. I can't stand staring out in 1st and needing to shift 1 second later.
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