Installing a passenger side mirror?

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

you people must go to different auto repair places than I do. I never ask the labor rate or the book time. I ask for a price. Period. 2 hours at $80 and 2.2 hours at $72.70 is STILL $160. That's all anyone should give a **** about.

I already said all I care about is bottom line price. However, I have run into a lot of mechanics that bring up the book hours. Also, I know a lot of people that shop by shop rates, which are usually prominently displayed when you walk in the door. Shop rates don't matter if there isn't a standard way in which they are applied.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I already said all I care about is bottom line price. However, I have run into a lot of mechanics that bring up the book hours. Also, I know a lot of people that shop by shop rates, which are usually prominently displayed when you walk in the door. Shop rates don't matter if there isn't a standard way in which they are applied.

what Exoter is doing IMHO is no different than SAUTO not having shop fees.

Say SAUTO and Shop X both charge $85/hr. SAUTO charges only actual misc. materials, and SHOP X charges 10% for shop fees.

Is that unethical? No. It's a business model. It's no different than an airline charging for baggage.

What is SAUTO charges $85/hr and book times and Shop X charges $93 but quotes book times less 10%?

Is THAT unethical?

All that a customer should pay attention to the bottom line price and the shop's reputation for quality and service.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

what Exoter is doing IMHO is no different than SAUTO not having shop fees.

Say SAUTO and Shop X both charge $85/hr. SAUTO charges only actual misc. materials, and SHOP X charges 10% for shop fees.

Is that unethical? No. It's a business model. It's no different than an airline charging for baggage.

What is SAUTO charges $85/hr and book times and Shop X charges $93 but quotes book times less 10%?

Is THAT unethical?

All that a customer should pay attention to the bottom line price and the shop's reputation for quality and service.

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

Whether a shop chooses to raise their labor rate or bump their hours or mark up their parts, is up to them. There is no wrong way to do it.

As some mentioned earlier, the price of the job is what you want to shop. Of course if you only shop for price, I guarantee you, you wont find the best shop.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

Whether a shop chooses to raise their labor rate or bump their hours or mark up their parts, is up to them. There is no wrong way to do it.

As some mentioned earlier, the price of the job is what you want to shop. Of course if you only shop for price, I guarantee you, you wont find the best shop.

The only way to find the best shop is to ask around, and talk with them face to face.

My job, as an owner, manager, and mechanic, was to show YOU what you were paying for. I might not have always been the cheapest, but I was the best, and for GOOD customers, I'd work almost any way I could and bend over backwards for your business.

However, I'm probably not putting a mirror on your car for 20 bucks or less.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

The only way to find the best shop is to ask around, and talk with them face to face.

My job, as an owner, manager, and mechanic, was to show YOU what you were paying for. I might not have always been the cheapest, but I was the best, and for GOOD customers, I'd work almost any way I could and bend over backwards for your business.

However, I'm probably not putting a mirror on your car for 20 bucks or less.

My labor rate is 98.00 an hour. We arent the cheapest but we dont charge what the dealer does either?

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

When you do a little research on the business and understand how it works, instead of applying it to the business you are currently in, give me a call, I'll school you in the world of automotive repair so that you KNOW what you are talking about.

I don't charge anybody for anything they don't need, including hours. I charge them based on how long this job should take my mechanics, based on how quickly my mechanics work on average compared to book time, and scale appropriately.

so your mechanics werent good enough to do the jobs in book time?

got it.


and the only perrson assuming anything here is you buddy.

you assume i am what you THINK i am. all the while i have told you exactly what i am.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

so your mechanics werent good enough to do the jobs in book time?

got it.


and the only perrson assuming anything here is you buddy.

you assume i am what you THINK i am. all the while i have told you exactly what i am.

No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.

lol more assumptions. when there is a person that has been to my shop and can verify everything i have said.

and i expect every job that leaves my shop to be just as it was from the factory. i dont want to be able to pop a hood and see that the vehicle has been worked on. book time accounts for that, and even includes time to clean up after the job...

but you think you need to inflate it

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

My labor rate is 98.00 an hour. We arent the cheapest but we dont charge what the dealer does either?

I'm not following. Not sure if question, or troll post.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

thats not saul's point.


he's talking about the guy inflating book time and charging for it.


if you beat book time good for you its a bonus for the shop and the mechanic.

saul knows this and has stated as such multiple times

You don't always beat book time, you don't always do a PERFECT job. I scale my book times by 10% and only 10% to account for doing a PERFECT unrushed job, because my job is to give you perfect work so that you don't have to bring it back 3 days later with a flat tire after I did an engine swap.

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats.

so your beef is simply that he bills $80/hr instead of $82/hr?

His beef is that he dislikes the fact that I know how to do business better, that I criticized his work, after he criticized mine in another thread. He's an idiot who works at a mom and pop, I'm a small business entrepreneur who is working towards his third business, while Employed in the same field he is in, making 2-3 times as much as him for half the work at a dealership, and today I have an off day, something he doesn't get because he works at a mom and pop where you never get a day off.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

but those customers that trust you trust that you are charging them according to what the industry standards are.

book time is actually industry standard IMO, thats why every shop buys those over priced things

Book time is not an industry standard you ****ing moron, if it were, all 9 competing software companies would have the same book numbers, and they don't.

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

my beef is that he marks up the time in his labor guide anywhere from 10- 20%.

I mark up my labor guide by 10% using an industry low book time, to account for the work that was being done at my shop, which was second to none.

If you don't like that, don't bring your car to any of my current or future businesses, but rest assured, I am not GOUGING you on price, I'm making sure your car is done right the first time, and you don't have to bring it back next week for something we ****ed up.

[Dartgod]

Originally Posted by Exoter175

No, my mechanics were top notch, they can do fast work when I ask them to, but I ask that they do PERFECT work. Something you probably don't know much about. I can charge you for 2 hours and get your car done in an hour, but I can't guarantee it is perfect because I'm putting a rush on them. I'd rather not rush them and sacrifice my product and my credibility.

As for the assumptions, I'm referring to you making the assumption that I had two failed businesses that I ran into the ground, when I didn't.

I like money, I like being paid more for less work, that's why I no longer own my own shop. I like the freedom of doing whatever I want, when I want.

You don't get that freedom at a mom and pop shop, and if you were half as busy as you claim to be on these forums, you wouldn't be here posting.

From someone in the "know" about being busy, I can tell you that I NEVER had the time to post on a message board when I was working at my shops, i was......TOO BUSY......

Business hours 8-6, real hours 7-10. That's what busy looks like chump.

You're a ****ing douche.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

It becomes unethical when he bills for hours not worked.

No it doesnt. If I bill 4 hours for an intake job and my lead Tech has done a hundred of them and he can do it in three, why should he get paid less because he is really good at it.

Do you know any other job that pays you less the better you become?

Now the marking up of the book time is slightly different, I do believe ethics comes into play if you are doing it on every job but to say I have never marked up book time would not be truthful.

Book time on an exhaust manifold is assuming everything comes apart like it should, there is no additional time for broken exhaust studs, which happens all the time. So I generally give my customer a range on something like that. If the studs dont brake its book time, if they do, it can add quite a bit to the labor.

[Exoter175]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

No it doesnt. If I bill 4 hours for an intake job and my lead Tech has done a hundred of them and he can do it in three, why should he get paid less because he is really good at it.

Do you know any other job that pays you less the better you become?

Now the marking up of the book time is slightly different, I do believe ethics comes into play if you are doing it on every job but to say I have never marked up book time would not be truthful.

Book time on an exhaust manifold is assuming everything comes apart like it should, there is no additional time for broken exhaust studs, which happens all the time. So I generally give my customer a range on something like that. If the studs dont brake its book time, if they do, it can add quite a bit to the labor.

THANK YOU, somebody who fully understands what I'm talking about here.

This guy truly gets it, I'm buying him a beer.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by chiefforlife

No it doesnt. If I bill 4 hours for an intake job and my lead Tech has done a hundred of them and he can do it in three, why should he get paid less because he is really good at it.

Do you know any other job that pays you less the better you become?

Now the marking up of the book time is slightly different, I do believe ethics comes into play if you are doing it on every job but to say I have never marked up book time would not be truthful.

Book time on an exhaust manifold is assuming everything comes apart like it should, there is no additional time for broken exhaust studs, which happens all the time. So I generally give my customer a range on something like that. If the studs dont brake its book time, if they do, it can add quite a bit to the labor.

this is entirely true.


but that comes with TRUST.

half the time my customers dont even WANT an estimate. they dont call around to other shops.

they trust me.