ghosts

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by Jerm

Well the Sallie House had this ridiculous amplified negative energy the second you stepped in...in fact at one point or another 3 of our team became sick to their stomachs or drained of energy to the point they had to leave the house for a period of time.

We believe we came into contact with at least 2 and more than likely 3 malevolent entities...

Me personally I was touched on the back of my head, had my name spoken and some very nasty things directed towards me on the spirit box...witnessed a shadow figure in the master bedroom.

We had a team member shoved and a couple of them had something attach to them once they left.

It was one of very first investigations...we're trying to get back in this summer.

Crazy, scary night....

I want to believe you. I REALLY do.
But you sound like you are straight out of ghost hunters, and that show is 100% BS.
I have actually FELT things MANY times. Known something was there. No doubt in my mind.
But as far as physical manipulation or manifestation...I dont buy it....At All.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I want to believe you. I REALLY do.
But you sound like you are straight out of ghost hunters, and that show is 100% BS.
I have actually FELT things MANY times. Known something was there. No doubt in my mind.
But as far as physical manipulation or manifestation...I dont buy it....At All.

Hey I'm not offended at all...I'd be skeptical too if I had not experienced what I have.

The beautiful thing is that I don't really care what others think or when I'm doubted...I know what I've seen, heard, and felt and that's all that matters. Not trying to sound like a prick, just the truth.

It's all good.

[Carlota69]

Yes. Absolutely, yes.

I have lived in 2 haunted house in my life. One when I was 5, and I of course dont remember anything, but I remember my mom moving us out in a quick hurry, and have since heard all the stories of what went on there.

Then I lived in another house haunted by over 13 spirits when I was 23-24 years old. I had 3 roomates in that house, one was incredibly skeptical, until some serious shit went down. She is forever a believer because of our experience.

And as far as seeing them? No. Feeling their presence? Yes.

Plus they made shit move, filled sinks with water, light switches on and off, doors slamming etc, house was cold and you could always see your breath etc...

Since I moved out of that house, and still lived in the area, I always saw people moving in, and then a few months later, moving out. I visited the city recently, and again, saw people moving out. That house was ****ing crazy! if
When I buy or rent a place, If I feel anything remotely close to what I felt in that house (That look over your shoulder feeling), I'm out!!!

Its a campfire, Halloween story...

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by Carlota69

Plus they made shit move

[Kaepernick]

Here is a curveball...

There are 317 million people in the USA according to the CIA World Factbook.

160 million are Protestants.

76 million are Catholics.

3 million are non-denominational Christians.

Call it 240 million Christians.

So how do people who consider themselves to be Christians reconcile a belief in ghosts when the bible precludes the possibity? Lost souls go to Purgatory, they don't get to hang around on earth causing trouble for people.

There are no such things as ghosts or no such thing as God. If I ever saw a ghost, that would be a very bad thing for me as it would mean God doesn't exist.

[MOhillbilly]

Originally Posted by Kaepernick

Here is a curveball...

There are 317 million people in the USA according to the CIA World Factbook.

160 million are Protestants.

76 million are Catholics.

3 million are non-denominational Christians.

Call it 240 million Christians.

So how do people who consider themselves to be Christians reconcile a belief in ghosts when the bible precludes the possibity? Lost souls go to Purgatory, they don't get to hang around on earth causing trouble for people.

There are no such things as ghosts or no such thing as God. If I ever saw a ghost, that would be a very bad thing for me as it would mean God doesn't exist.

Purgatory isn't Christian.

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

Purgatory isn't Christian.

glad you pointed that out, never have seen a reference to that in the Bible.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Originally Posted by plbrdude

glad you pointed that out, never have seen a reference to that in the Bible.

Not every thing Christian is explicitly in the Bible. Good luck finding the word Trinity...yet all Christians believe in it. Purgatory is in the Bible. Just not explicitly.

As for Ghosts...I'm a fence rider. I do believe that none of that shit is to be messed with. Ouija boards, seances, etc. But I do believe that God sends us messages, in the form of angels. I think more often, they are demons. I believe that once we die, we go to purgation (cleansing) while we await heaven, or we go straight to hell. Any visitations we have from the beyond are either a blessing or a curse, and it takes discernment to figure out which.

Either way, it's nothing to trifle with. You'd never find me on a "ghost hunt"...

[plbrdude]

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

Not every thing Christian is explicitly in the Bible. Good luck finding the word Trinity...yet all Christians believe in it. Purgatory is in the Bible. Just not explicitly.

As for Ghosts...I'm a fence rider. I do believe that none of that shit is to be messed with. Ouija boards, seances, etc. But I do believe that God sends us messages, in the form of angels. I think more often, they are demons. I believe that once we die, we go to purgation (cleansing) while we await heaven, or we go straight to hell. Any visitations we have from the beyond are either a blessing or a curse, and it takes discernment to figure out which.

Either way, it's nothing to trifle with. You'd never find me on a "ghost hunt"...

not all Christians believe in the trinity. on the ghost thing i pretty much agree with what you're saying there. angels are called ministering spirits. i don't agree with the purgatory thing though, Paul wrote that to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord, either that or we get a long peaceful nap awaiting to be called into His presence.

[warpaint*]

Originally Posted by InChiefsHell

Not every thing Christian is explicitly in the Bible. Good luck finding the word Trinity...yet all Christians believe in it. Purgatory is in the Bible. Just not explicitly.

As for Ghosts...I'm a fence rider. I do believe that none of that shit is to be messed with. Ouija boards, seances, etc. But I do believe that God sends us messages, in the form of angels. I think more often, they are demons. I believe that once we die, we go to purgation (cleansing) while we await heaven, or we go straight to hell. Any visitations we have from the beyond are either a blessing or a curse, and it takes discernment to figure out which.

Either way, it's nothing to trifle with. You'd never find me on a "ghost hunt"...

No it isn't but the doctrine is derived from the Bible itself as the Bible in no uncertain terms claims the following which encompasses the doctrine of the trinity:
1. There is only one God.
2. God the Father is God.
3. Jesus is God.
4. The Holy Ghost or Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons.

Purgatory OTOH as a word and doctrinal principle in general isn't anywhere in the Bible.

The word itself was first used I think in the 12th century although elements of the principles of going through some sort of transition between earth and heaven date further back. The difference here is they are not Biblical.

I agree that there are things not written in the Bible that are true and also possibly true so long as they don't contradict anything in God's word.

As for ghosts...don't believe in them. When was the last time a ghost haunted a highly populated office building or police station or shopping mall and appeared to someone at 2:45pm. No...it's always the middle of the night, in some dilapidated shack that's falling apart with a dearth of witnesses. As for the people that see stuff, it's not that I necessarily think they're lying or are crazy (I don't necessarily), I just think they are subconsciously hallucinating.

As for people that testify to those experiences, I respect their POV to disagree as it's their personal experience. I just think the reality is the result of something else.

I have substituted "Christian" with "Biblical" b/c the former is used to encompass a wide variety of things over time that are not necessarily rooted in God's word.

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by plbrdude

glad you pointed that out, never have seen a reference to that in the Bible.

no, but the bible acknowledges, Angels, evil angels and the Supernatural. I just recently read that in my study bible i got.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Kaepernick

So how do people who consider themselves to be Christians reconcile a belief in ghosts when the bible precludes the possibity?

Where does the Bible do that?

[Kaepernick]

Originally Posted by Donger

Where does the Bible do that?

It is the part about dead people going to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory upon death. There is nothing in the bible that mentions the souls of dead people staying on earth. The only mention of ghosts in the bible are things like the Apostles mistaking Christ for a ghost who then corrects them. The Apostles believed in ghosts, but then they believed in a lot of crap before they followed Christ.

The Bible mentions angels and demons. No ghosts.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Kaepernick

It is the part about dead people going to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory upon death. There is nothing in the bible that mentions the souls of dead people staying on earth. The only mention of ghosts in the bible are things like the Apostles mistaking Christ for a ghost who then corrects them. The Apostles believed in ghosts, but then they believed in a lot of crap before they followed Christ.

The Bible mentions angels and demons. No ghosts.

Sorry, but that isn't what you stated. You stated: "a belief in ghosts when the bible precludes the possibity?"

Not mentioning ghosts doesn't mean that the Bible precludes the possibility of them existing.

[Kaepernick]

Originally Posted by Donger

Sorry, but that isn't what you stated. You stated: "a belief in ghosts when the bible precludes the possibity?"

Not mentioning ghosts doesn't mean that the Bible precludes the possibility of them existing.

Yes it does. In order for ghosts to exist under Christian theology taken from the Bible, either God would have to misplace souls on earth by accident or God would have to allow animated souls with Free Will to roam earth on purpose. There is absolutly no reference to either possiblity in the Bible.

The best I can figure from my reading of the bible is that souls of the dead sleep until the final judgment day. Even Jesus was attributed to saying "Lazarus sleeps" in reference to Lazarus being dead.

Hell, even Christ's divine soul was inanimate for 3 days, only appearing to his followers after his resurrection, and that was in body not as a ghost. Doubting Thomas actually felt the holes in his hands and feet - so Christ returned in flesh form resurrected, not as a ghost.

"Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."- Luke 24:36-39

Hey, I'm not asking you not to believe in ghosts. I am only saying a belief in ghosts is directly opposed to Christian theology. There is no wiggle room for believing in Christ and believing in ghosts. The bible is pretty clear on that. Dead souls sleep or are in stasis pending Christ's 2nd coming. They aren't running around loose on earth. Ghosts are not possible under any reading of Christian theology.

That is why I directed my question to Christians. Either there are no ghosts or there is no God and the bible is all made up. It can't be any other way.

Don't blame me. I didn't write the bible.