2013 Sandbox Simulations League 1 Thread - Page 52

DJ's left nut · 12:35 PM

Figured creating a new thread for the upcoming league 1 season would probably help consolidate discussion.

Teams:

Anchorage Roadkill Rabbits lostcause
Austin Armadillos noa
Cedar Rapids Angry Clam Hammers dj56dt58
Chula Vista cripplas mrroandro
Clearwater Donkeys DJsleftnut
Dallas K-Swiss Tubes Zeke
Denver Broncos Wonton prejudice (gochiefs).
Duluth Pillagers rain man
Fort Wayne Dukes jerm
Fort Worth Drifters KCChiefsman
High Point Knob Hills ChiefAshhole20
Independence Vision cdcox
Kansas City Ball Busters Kyle DeLexus
Las Vegas Lonely Strippers sfchief
Overland Park Chiefs Old Dog
Pittsburgh Tacos brorth
Portland Rhein Foster (not a cp member - contact via djsleftnut)
Provo Knuckledraggers rageeumr
Richmond Tigerhawks carlos3652
Springfield Attack bevischief
St Joseph Stetsons austinchief
Topeka Tyrannicide Allen_kccard
Ventura Highways rockchalk
Wichita Potheads Confirmed topher79

Spoiler!

**AustinChief** · 05-28-2013, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Yeah, I'm kind of torn about having any rollover at all. Or perhaps there's a rollover tax of 50% or something. What do you think?

yup, I would think a 50% rollover would be the best bet.

Hammock Parties · 05-28-2013, 04:28 PM

Any chance we can start FA earlier than June 9 if everyone is ready?

Yes, I'm ready.

Subscribe to my premium forum for all the inside info on the best FAs.

**cdcox** · 05-28-2013, 06:26 PM

A lot of great ideas here. Once I get past basic function, we'll prioritize the projects according to demand and coding effort. Maybe we can find someone who knows how to post a poll to get user input.

Wrong thread, bozo.

**noa** · 05-29-2013, 08:08 AM

If I sign a guy to a two year deal, and he has a breakout season, will there be a way for me to extend his contract next offseason? Or am I stuck with that two year deal?

allen_kcCard · 05-29-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noa

If I sign a guy to a two year deal, and he has a breakout season, will there be a way for me to extend his contract next offseason? Or am I stuck with that two year deal?

I think your only option on that is this part:

• At the end of the bidding process, you have the opportunity to re-sign your own players by outbidding the high bidder. Your bid must be the minimum points to increase their contract period by a year over the high bid. (Example: your player goes to free agency, and another team bids 50 points for him, which equates to a 4-year contract. You can keep the player by paying 55 points for him, which is the minimum amount for a 5-year contract.) If the high bidder offered a contract of 100 points or more (7-years), you can keep the player by bidding 10% more points than the high bid.

DJ's left nut · 05-29-2013, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noa

If I sign a guy to a two year deal, and he has a breakout season, will there be a way for me to extend his contract next offseason? Or am I stuck with that two year deal?

Nope - you have to let him go into the pool and then bid with the other plebians.

That or you have to actually pay him like a breakout star before he breaks out.

I guess that's ultimately the trade-off we're given in order to not have to worry about 'dead money' on our cap. I still wish we could have an RFA designation if nothing else.

carlos3652 · 05-29-2013, 12:58 PM

Yea - if he is under contract, you would hope you could re up him before his contract expires... I get the fact that you could put everyone on a one year contract with that but there has to be a way to keep a star player especially if you have him on a 3+ year original contract.

maybe we can put a rule in saying that if the original contract is 3+ years, you have the option of re uping once - if you only offer him 2 or less at any point the original way stands and he hits FA...

I just think there needs to be something in place for the players you spent the most on... letting them walk or test FA when you paid him handsomely seems dumb...

I think its dumb if i put my drafted rookie on a 3 year contract, and him breaking out in year 3 puts me at a disadvantage when I was the one that waited for his development...

**Old Dog** · 05-29-2013, 02:04 PM

Maybe make it where you can extend one player per year?

sfchief · 05-29-2013, 02:12 PM

I like the one time extension it covers RFA
and franchise tag.

I believe most of us are having trouble w 3
things
1. Paying rookies the same as established vets

2. Paying stars the same as backups

3. Finding a way to keep star players out of FA
and retaining players we have drafted.

Once a player is a FA the system works well
and the market will set itself, especially after a few
seasons.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-29-2013, 02:56 PM

You want a balance, we need to come up with a way to be able to keep good players... But at the same time there needs to be a way to have good players become FA's as well. Say... Each year you are able to only sign a set amount of players from the team to a contract. For example 10. So if you have 18 players hitting FA, you have 8 that will become FA's that you'll have to bid on as a FA instead of being able to retain without competing bids.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-29-2013, 03:38 PM

Also, any individual signed to a 1-year contract cannot be resigned to an extension. Will automatically be placed back into the pool.

carlos3652 · 05-29-2013, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

You want a balance, we need to come up with a way to be able to keep good players... But at the same time there needs to be a way to have good players become FA's as well. Say... Each year you are able to only sign a set amount of players from the team to a contract. For example 10. So if you have 18 players hitting FA, you have 8 that will become FA's that you'll have to bid on as a FA instead of being able to retain without competing bids.

Yes - I just feel that lets say you put everyone on a 3 year contract - in 3 years - you might have a turnover of 100% and lose your best players to other teams?

Thats not normal - A team keeps their best player normally - for at least 2 contracts...

DJ's left nut · 05-29-2013, 03:48 PM

Here's one thing I do like about a setup that I'm not really in love with:

In the NFL, are you ever more than 3 years away from a playoff spot? 5 years away from a Super Bowl? No matter how awful a team is, it can truly be rebuilt in the NFL in the span of a couple of seasons largely due to a thriving FA market.

Well...that's what this league would do as well. It's going to be awfully tough to build a true dynasty, but at the same time, a team can be smart, fly under the radar and rebuild a team in just a season or two.

I still don't love how this thing is set up and I believe this is largely an unintended consequence, but it's still an upshot.

My annoyance remains in the inability to sign role players to deals that are more than a year long. If I want to sign a nice swing tackle for 3 years, I'm going to have to pay him like my starting guard. Well that's just bizarre.

But it feeds turnover, feeds FA depth and feeds increased competition every single season that extends beyond merely the NFL draft. It turns the league from a full blown 'dynasty' league into more of a keeper league where you can note a handful of guys as keepers and the rest of the team is essentially re-draft every season.

It's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd sure like to see some tweeking to account for guys that make smart decisions on young players and/or guys pre-breakout. There really should be a mechanism for allowing a team to keep that guy on the roster without having to go bid among the masses.

sfchief · 05-29-2013, 08:09 PM

A tale of two players

Calvin Johnson 27- #1 WR in the nfl in his prime will receive a 7 yr contract for $100
In FA who knows how high that price would go!
At the end of this contract he will b 34 and would b ok w him on the FA market

Everson Griffen 25 a backup on my and the vikings. Jared Allen is the starter in front of him
2 yrs from now he should b the starter. He had 8 sacks last yr in a reserve role and shows signs of being of really good starter

If I gave him a 3yr deal ($22) he could b in his first yr starting and could have some great #s. In free agency he would get big $ and a 7yr deal. He would b 28 and 35 when he hit FA again so the prime of his career would go to the highest bidder, even though I identified him as an as sending player and spent the money to keep him in hopes he would turn into a starter w great production. In the real nfl this player would get a modest 2nd contract and then paid more when he was a starter.

This is not possible the way it is set now.

Everson Grifffen gets a 7yr deal ($100) paid the same as the best WR in the nfl
Hits FA at 32 someone gets him after 5yrs of starting and about 3yrs of good production
left. I have paid a premium to keep and get half of his prime. The smart play is first one but it illustrates some of the flaws of $ for contract yrs in stead of production. I think it will lend in to a lot of of middle roster turnover with stars mixed in very infrequently. Building through the draft will not exist the way we think of it and late rd steals will have to b paid like stars to get the production of their middle career. It would b much less expensive to just build ur team in FA and get a couple of stars in FA when ur close to a title.

Just throwing out to see if other owners are having the same troubles

**Rain Man** · 05-29-2013, 08:39 PM

Thanks for the feedback, everyone, and we're looking at all the suggestions.

Question, though - how many players would you expect to replace on your roster each year?

05-14-2013, 08:57 AM
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-730901	2013 Sandbox Simulations League 1 Thread Figured creating a new thread for the upcoming league 1 season would probably help consolidate discussion. Teams: Anchorage Roadkill Rabbits lostcause Austin Armadillos noa Cedar Rapids Angry Clam Hammers dj56dt58 Chula Vista cripplas mrroandro Clearwater Donkeys DJsleftnut Dallas K-Swiss Tubes Zeke Denver Broncos Wonton prejudice (gochiefs). Duluth Pillagers rain man Fort Wayne Dukes jerm Fort Worth Drifters KCChiefsman High Point Knob Hills ChiefAshhole20 Independence Vision cdcox Kansas City Ball Busters Kyle DeLexus Las Vegas Lonely Strippers sfchief Overland Park Chiefs Old Dog Pittsburgh Tacos brorth Portland Rhein Foster (not a cp member - contact via djsleftnut) Provo Knuckledraggers rageeumr Richmond Tigerhawks carlos3652 Springfield Attack bevischief St Joseph Stetsons austinchief Topeka Tyrannicide Allen_kccard Ventura Highways rockchalk Wichita Potheads Confirmed topher79 Spoiler! Anchorage Roadkill Rabbits lostcause Josh Gordon Austin Armadillos noa Lavonte David David Wilson Vick Ballard Cedar Rapids Angry Clam Hammers dj56dt58 Robert Griffin III Harrison Smith Riley Reiff Chula Vista cripplas mrroandro Morris Claiborne Shea McClellin Clearwater Donkeys DJsleftnut Chandler Jones Bruce Irvin Melvin Ingram Dallas K-Swiss Tubes Zeke AIDS Ass Cancer Denver Broncos Wonton prejudice Michael Brockers Dwayne Allen Chris Givens Duluth Pillagers rain man Courtney Upshaw Fort Wayne Dukes jerm Mark Barron Fort Worth Drifters KCChiefsman Doug Martin Mychal Kendricks High Point Knob Hills ChiefAshhole20 Trent Richardson Witney Mercilus Kelechi Osemele Independence Vision cdcox Mitchell Schwartz Kansas City Ball Busters Kyle DeLexus Luke Kuechly Mike Martin Brandon Weeden Las Vegas Lonely Strippers sfchief Fletcher Cox Alfonzo Dennard Overland Park Chiefs Old Dog Matt Kalil Derek Wolfe Pittsburgh Tacos brorth Alfred Morris Kendall Wright AJ Jenkins Portland Rhein Foster: Andrew Luck Cordy Glenn Provo Knuckledraggers rageeumr Justin Blackmon Kevin Zeitler An unemployed Nickle Corner Richmond Tigerhawks carlos3652 Zach Brown Tavon Wilson Josh Robinson Springfield Attack bevischief Ryan Tannehill Dre Kirkpatrick St Joseph Stetsons austinchief Casey Hayward David DeCastro Brandon Taylor Topeka Tyrannicide Allen_kccard Russell Wilson Bernard Pierce Ventura Highways rockchalk Stephon Gilmore Coby Fleener Wichita Potheads Confirmed topher79 Dont'a Hightower Some kicker. Idiot. Last edited by DJ's left nut; 05-24-2013 at 12:35 PM..
Posts: 66,803

05-28-2013, 04:28 PM	#767
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $930478	Any chance we can start FA earlier than June 9 if everyone is ready? Yes, I'm ready. Subscribe to my premium forum for all the inside info on the best FAs. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,004

05-28-2013, 06:26 PM	#768
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $-508231	A lot of great ideas here. Once I get past basic function, we'll prioritize the projects according to demand and coding effort. Maybe we can find someone who knows how to post a poll to get user input. Wrong thread, bozo. Last edited by cdcox; 05-28-2013 at 06:31 PM..
Posts: 46,032

05-29-2013, 08:08 AM	#769
noa Band Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $-534547	If I sign a guy to a two year deal, and he has a breakout season, will there be a way for me to extend his contract next offseason? Or am I stuck with that two year deal? __________________ Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes, well, he eats you.
Posts: 8,302

05-29-2013, 12:58 PM	#772
carlos3652 El Diablo Join Date: Dec 2004 Casino cash: $1746679	Yea - if he is under contract, you would hope you could re up him before his contract expires... I get the fact that you could put everyone on a one year contract with that but there has to be a way to keep a star player especially if you have him on a 3+ year original contract. maybe we can put a rule in saying that if the original contract is 3+ years, you have the option of re uping once - if you only offer him 2 or less at any point the original way stands and he hits FA... I just think there needs to be something in place for the players you spent the most on... letting them walk or test FA when you paid him handsomely seems dumb... I think its dumb if i put my drafted rookie on a 3 year contract, and him breaking out in year 3 puts me at a disadvantage when I was the one that waited for his development...
Posts: 6,108

05-29-2013, 02:04 PM	#773
Old Dog Supporter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Central Kansas Casino cash: $2540201	Maybe make it where you can extend one player per year?
Posts: 10,767

05-29-2013, 02:12 PM	#774
sfchief Drinking the Kool Aid Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Glen park SF Casino cash: $8491005	I like the one time extension it covers RFA and franchise tag. I believe most of us are having trouble w 3 things 1. Paying rookies the same as established vets 2. Paying stars the same as backups 3. Finding a way to keep star players out of FA and retaining players we have drafted. Once a player is a FA the system works well and the market will set itself, especially after a few seasons.
Posts: 345

05-29-2013, 02:56 PM	#775
Fansy the Famous Bard I'm with the Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $-1033560	You want a balance, we need to come up with a way to be able to keep good players... But at the same time there needs to be a way to have good players become FA's as well. Say... Each year you are able to only sign a set amount of players from the team to a contract. For example 10. So if you have 18 players hitting FA, you have 8 that will become FA's that you'll have to bid on as a FA instead of being able to retain without competing bids. __________________ Hi.
Posts: 6,451

05-29-2013, 03:38 PM	#776
Fansy the Famous Bard I'm with the Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $-1033560	Also, any individual signed to a 1-year contract cannot be resigned to an extension. Will automatically be placed back into the pool. __________________ Hi.
Posts: 6,451

05-29-2013, 03:48 PM	#778
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-730901	Here's one thing I do like about a setup that I'm not really in love with: In the NFL, are you ever more than 3 years away from a playoff spot? 5 years away from a Super Bowl? No matter how awful a team is, it can truly be rebuilt in the NFL in the span of a couple of seasons largely due to a thriving FA market. Well...that's what this league would do as well. It's going to be awfully tough to build a true dynasty, but at the same time, a team can be smart, fly under the radar and rebuild a team in just a season or two. I still don't love how this thing is set up and I believe this is largely an unintended consequence, but it's still an upshot. My annoyance remains in the inability to sign role players to deals that are more than a year long. If I want to sign a nice swing tackle for 3 years, I'm going to have to pay him like my starting guard. Well that's just bizarre. But it feeds turnover, feeds FA depth and feeds increased competition every single season that extends beyond merely the NFL draft. It turns the league from a full blown 'dynasty' league into more of a keeper league where you can note a handful of guys as keepers and the rest of the team is essentially re-draft every season. It's not the worst thing in the world, but I'd sure like to see some tweeking to account for guys that make smart decisions on young players and/or guys pre-breakout. There really should be a mechanism for allowing a team to keep that guy on the roster without having to go bid among the masses. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,803

05-29-2013, 08:09 PM	#779
sfchief Drinking the Kool Aid Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Glen park SF Casino cash: $8491005	A tale of two players Calvin Johnson 27- #1 WR in the nfl in his prime will receive a 7 yr contract for $100 In FA who knows how high that price would go! At the end of this contract he will b 34 and would b ok w him on the FA market Everson Griffen 25 a backup on my and the vikings. Jared Allen is the starter in front of him 2 yrs from now he should b the starter. He had 8 sacks last yr in a reserve role and shows signs of being of really good starter If I gave him a 3yr deal ($22) he could b in his first yr starting and could have some great #s. In free agency he would get big $ and a 7yr deal. He would b 28 and 35 when he hit FA again so the prime of his career would go to the highest bidder, even though I identified him as an as sending player and spent the money to keep him in hopes he would turn into a starter w great production. In the real nfl this player would get a modest 2nd contract and then paid more when he was a starter. This is not possible the way it is set now. Everson Grifffen gets a 7yr deal ($100) paid the same as the best WR in the nfl Hits FA at 32 someone gets him after 5yrs of starting and about 3yrs of good production left. I have paid a premium to keep and get half of his prime. The smart play is first one but it illustrates some of the flaws of $ for contract yrs in stead of production. I think it will lend in to a lot of of middle roster turnover with stars mixed in very infrequently. Building through the draft will not exist the way we think of it and late rd steals will have to b paid like stars to get the production of their middle career. It would b much less expensive to just build ur team in FA and get a couple of stars in FA when ur close to a title. Just throwing out to see if other owners are having the same troubles
Posts: 345

05-29-2013, 08:39 PM	#780
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-552449 VARSITY	Thanks for the feedback, everyone, and we're looking at all the suggestions. Question, though - how many players would you expect to replace on your roster each year? __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,356