Stop Eating Sugar

[Buck]

Added sugar in particular. Most fruit is okay.

Please watch this.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

No, it's an issue in the minds of those who are seeking an answer to the question, because the studies haven't settled the question.

You can post all the gay porn tryout pictures you want, but that's not going to magically create a scientific certainty where there's not one.

Look, you can throw all the ad hominems at me that you want, but it won't change the fact that there's just no proof that diet sodas cause weight gain.

I'm open to new research changing my mind, but there is no RCT that shows diet sodas to CAUSE weight gain. It doesn't matter how many diet sodas you drink, if you're at or under maintenance calories, you won't gain weight. That's what it boils down to, and it's really at the heart of what this thread is supposed to be about -- what makes us fat? You can say whatever you want, but in all the studies, the ONE THING that ALWAYS causes weight gain is an excess of calories consumed compared to calories burned. No matter what your metabolic rate is or how it got altered, either up or down, intake must ALWAYS follow accordingly. Weight simply doesn't come out of nowhere. Diet sodas do not cause weight gain any more than being poor causes someone to rob a bank.

But hey, there are also no studies that show that a goose shitting in my backyard doesn't cause weight gain. SO BEWARE OF DECK-SHITTING GEESE, LEST YE BECOME OBESE . . . BECAUSE . . . SCIENCE!

Also, I polished off a 2 liter bottle of diet drink in honor of this shit-fest of a thread. I suspect I'll wake up tomorrow 17 pounds heavier, with a tumor in my liver. DAMN YOU, ASPARTAME!

[Lumpy]

This thread went a bit strange.

[Silock]

Don't they always?

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by Silock

Don't they always?

This is true.

Your ink... what is it a picture of? (I can't really tell in the pics)

Edit: If you don't mind me asking.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Silock

Look, you can throw all the ad hominems at me that you want, but it won't change the fact that there's just no proof that diet sodas cause weight gain.

I'm open to new research changing my mind, but there is no RCT that shows diet sodas to CAUSE weight gain. It doesn't matter how many diet sodas you drink, if you're at or under maintenance calories, you won't gain weight. That's what it boils down to, and it's really at the heart of what this thread is supposed to be about -- what makes us fat? You can say whatever you want, but in all the studies, the ONE THING that ALWAYS causes weight gain is an excess of calories consumed compared to calories burned. No matter what your metabolic rate is or how it got altered, either up or down, intake must ALWAYS follow accordingly. Weight simply doesn't come out of nowhere. Diet sodas do not cause weight gain any more than being poor causes someone to rob a bank.

But hey, there are also no studies that show that a goose shitting in my backyard doesn't cause weight gain. SO BEWARE OF DECK-SHITTING GEESE, LEST YE BECOME OBESE . . . BECAUSE . . . SCIENCE!

Also, I polished off a 2 liter bottle of diet drink in honor of this shit-fest of a thread. I suspect I'll wake up tomorrow 17 pounds heavier, with a tumor in my liver. DAMN YOU, ASPARTAME!

Again, you're making arguments countering claims that weren't made, and you're obviously not open to new research since some new research has shown weight gain potentially attributable to artificial sweeteneres and you dismissed that out of hand, so you can shove your finger up your ass.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Again, you're making arguments countering claims that weren't made, and you're obviously not open to new research since some new research has shown weight gain potentially attributable to artificial sweeteneres and you dismissed that out of hand, so you can shove your finger up your ass.

No, you posted an article that doesn't contain "new research." The research in your article is from 2008, and is severely flawed. I'll later post two research reviews from 2012, and an earlier, more controlled study that show this "new research" to be a crock.

I dismissed nothing out of hand. I explained exactly why I dismissed your two links. Rats aren't humans, and there are significant differences in carbohydrate metabolism that make them a poor substitute for human studies. The conclusion of the "new research" was basically "Well, this study doesn't give us any kind of conclusion, because it could go in any number of directions." That is basically the scientific equivalent of

Scientist 1: "Hey, I might have seen Sasquatch . . . but it also could have been a butterfly."

Scientist 2: "Well, we mostly definitely didn't see a Sasquatch, and we also saw a ton of other evidence that Sasquatch doesn't even exist."

Scientist 1: "Well . . . there MIGHT be a Sasquatch."

Scientist 2: "There's no Sasquatch."

But, for a better understanding of why the research in your linked article is fatally flawed, I point to the response letter written to the publisher of said research.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1....2008.623/full

You can read it for yourself, but I'll highlight the really important bits.

[T]he baseline nutritional data collection was carried out in two phases, which spanned the time periods, 1979–1982 for Cohort 1 and 1984–1988 for Cohort 2. Until the mid-1980s, the main artificial sweetener used in foods and low calorie carbonated beverages (the primary AS application) was saccharine. Aspartame was not even approved for use in any food until July 1981, and its use in beverages was not approved until 1983. Thus, AS use by the whole of Cohort 1, and likely some subjects in Cohort 2, included little to no aspartame. The only data presented in the article, which actually involved aspartame, are depicted in Figure 2b. The remaining data presented in the article presumably represents a mix of various sweeteners, each of which is completely different in its chemical structure and metabolism.

We also wish to call to your attention a 2006 meta-analysis of clinical trails of aspartame use for weight control, which found no increase in BMI (2).

Those studies can be found here:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...564.x/abstract

and here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671

You haven't shown me any actual evidence diet soda makes you fat. I can, and have, pointed you to an actual meta-study showing the complete opposite, but here's another one, anyway. It's a bit older, but the point still stands.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/51/6/963

"To examine whether artificial sweeteners aid in the control of long-term food intake and body weight, we gave free-living, normal-weight subjects 1150 g soda sweetened with aspartame (APM) or high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) per day. Relative to when no soda was given, drinking APM-sweetened soda for 3 wk significantly reduced calorie intake of both females (n = 9) and males (n = 21) and decreased the body weight of males but not of females.
*my note: Although female weight reduction was not statistically significant, it was still a loss of weight; definitely not a weight gain*
However, drinking HFCS-sweetened soda for 3 wk significantly increased the calorie intake and body weight of both sexes. Ingesting either type of soda reduced intake of sugar from the diet without affecting intake of other nutrients. Drinking large volumes of APM-sweetened soda, in contrast to drinking HFCS-sweetened soda, reduces sugar intake and thus may facilitate the control of calorie intake and body weight."

The major limitation of this study is that total caloric intake wasn't limited by the study's design (although, it was recorded and logged appropriately). But hey, that's kinda what you were asking for when you said this:

In real life, though, secondary impacts of things such as the impact of a particular food on overall diet actually matter.

So, what we are left with is actual scientific evidence that artificial sweeteners did not cause weight gain (along with a hefty amount of research reviews saying that there's no evidence that artificial sweeteners contribute to weight gain http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23037901 and http://jn.nutrition.org/content/142/6/1163s.abstract ), and then some SEVERELY FLAWED speculation that they *could.* Guess which one I'm going to base my opinion on.

You're free to do the same.

[lcarus]

So basically all your chest hair just went down to your legs instead? My brother has the same affliction. Looks like a centaur.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

so you can shove your finger up your ass.

Also, why are you so salty? You've done nothing but attack me, and I'm not sure why.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by lcarus

So basically all your chest hair just went down to your legs instead? My brother has the same affliction. Looks like a centaur.

Yup. My arms are almost the same way. I have a little bit of hair on my forearms, but none on my upper arms. I look funny. Maybe that's why I try to have abs so much . . .

Warning - HAIRY GAY CONTENT AHEAD:

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

This is true.

Your ink... what is it a picture of? (I can't really tell in the pics)

Edit: If you don't mind me asking.

Falcon holding a Spartan shield bearing the date of the death of my best friend.

[Hammock Parties]

TRANSFORMERS

[Simply Red]

They gone hate - dat's when ya know ya doin' gr8 - right?

[Simply Red]

I've discovered Chuice - it's a non pasteurized mess in bottle - pretty sure it's here in Atlanta Metro only, though.

www.chuice.com

[Bob Dole]

Originally Posted by Simply Red

I've discovered Chuice - it's a non pasteurized mess in bottle - pretty sure it's here in Atlanta Metro only, though.

www.chuice.com

Ummm. Pass.

[lcarus]

I don't really feel there's anything with a little sugar now and then. My response to stuff like this is always the same - moderation is important with anything.

I've been trying to cut back on my sugar, caffeine, and fast food. I have consumed a lot of soda and energy drinks in my days. I'm really trying to cut back. I'll never give up caffeine or sugar 100%, but if I limit myself and counter it by eating healthier foods, drinking more water, and exercising, I'll be ok.