***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

• 2011 World Series Championship
• 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
• 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
• 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
• 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
• Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
• 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.

SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085

[BigRedChief]

It's looking like Mo is not going to panic and bring up Reyes to fill our need in the bullpen.

If we call Reyes up in Sept., that doesn't start his 6 year clock ticking does it?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It's looking like Mo is not going to panic and bring up Reyes to fill our need in the bullpen.

If we call Reyes up in Sept., that doesn't start his 6 year clock ticking does it?

No. He's not on the 25 man.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

No. He's not on the 25 man.

Sounds like a plan then, let him work on his control and change up in AAA for 6 weeks or so, then call him up in the Sept. call ups to get his first taste of the big show in preparation for 2017.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Looks like Wainwright is finally rounding into form. Save for the pants-shitting against the Royals, he's been great since the first of June.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Looks like Wainwright is finally rounding into form. Save for the pants-shitting against the Royals, he's been great since the first of June.

Martinez has been good too. Starting pitching isn't our issue. Offense should be good enough to win. Defense is what it is.

The bullpen if where we need help. I hope we don't trade another 1st rounder for some 7th/8th inning guy who ends being shit.

However, you have to give Mo credit for the heyward trade in hindsight. They wanted Martinez and he walked away from the deal. He gave up Miller who is now in AAA and we got a 1st rounder when Heyward left. Basically got 5+ WAR and a 1st rounder for a AAA pitcher. The deal looks a lot better now than it did when the deal was made or when Heyward left.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

However, you have to give Mo credit for the heyward trade in hindsight. They wanted Martinez and he walked away from the deal. He gave up Miller who is now in AAA and we got a 1st rounder when Heyward left. Basically got 5+ WAR and a 1st rounder for a AAA pitcher. The deal looks a lot better now than it did when the deal was made or when Heyward left.

I'm not sure how you can use hindsight to give Mo credit for that deal while ignoring what the Braves got for Shelby Miller.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Having Dansby Swanson in the pipeline would be pretty nice right now. Certainly much better than the comp pick we got for Heyward and his production over one season.

The Braves cleaned up on that deal with the D'Backs.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

I'm not sure how you can use hindsight to give Mo credit for that deal while ignoring what the Braves got for Shelby Miller.

Values of players go up and down as always by their performance on the field. He had a career year. The Braves sold high.

Hindsight credit is also on the curve. We, most in here anyway, thought the deal was shit. We got snookered. Now, not so much. Well at least me personally. Maybe Miller has a career year with us? But, Martinez is, was and always will be the better pitcher.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Values of players go up and down as always by their performance on the field. He had a career year. The Braves sold high.

Hindsight credit is also on the curve. We, most in here anyway, thought the deal was shit. We got snookered. Now, not so much. Well at least me personally. Maybe Miller has a career year with us? But, Martinez is, was and always will be the better pitcher.

It still looks like shit, lol. It doesn't matter that you kept Martinez instead of Miller. You got one year out of Heyward that amounted to nothing and got a comp pick for him. They got one year out of Miller and got a starting CF, Dansby Swanson, and Aaron Blair.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

It still looks like shit, lol. It doesn't matter that you kept Martinez instead of Miller. You got one year out of Heyward that amounted to nothing and got a comp pick for him. They got one year out of Miller and got a starting CF, Dansby Swanson, and Aaron Blair.

Thats not apples to apples. Millers value was not the same to other teams when we traded him and when the Braves traded him.

If Miller had a career year and then we traded him, we would have got more than 1 year of Heyward too. Mo is not an idiot.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Thats not apples to apples. If Miller had a career year and then we traded him, we would have got more than 1 year of Heyward too.

You are using hindsight to say Mo did a good job. You say the deal was shit then and it still looks like shit now. You can't just go "Oh it was a good deal because who knows if Miller has a career year with us or not" when using hindsight.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

You are using hindsight to say Mo did a good job. You say the deal was shit then and it still looks like shit now. You can't just go "Oh it was a good deal because who knows if Miller has a career year with us or not" when using hindsight.

Same basic principle as to why we gave up Brett Wallace, Rasmus and many others with talent. Maybe we saw something that told them they had topped out on their talent level.

Looks like Miller is the same, just came a year later.

Maybe Kaminsky never amounts to anything and the Moss deal looks better in hindsight? Who the **** knows about baseball trades until you see the full value and results from the trade.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Same basic principle as to why we gave up Brett Wallace, Rasmus and many others with talent. Maybe we saw something that told them they had topped out on their talent level.

Looks like Miller is the same, just came a year later.

There's literally no use in continue with this if you are going to continue ignoring what both teams in the deal ended up with. The deal was absolute shit then and it is still absolute shit now. Mo traded a 24 year old pitcher with 4 years of control left for a non power hitting OF with 1 year of control left.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

There's literally no use in continue with this if you are going to continue ignoring what both teams in the deal ended up with. The deal was absolute shit then and it is still absolute shit now. Mo traded a 24 year old pitcher with 4 years of control left for a non power hitting OF with 1 year of control left.

And you continue to ignore the change of Miller's performance on the field as my argument for his increase in trade value.

Seems to me that you are projecting your disappointment with Heyward this year into an argument for a trade made by STL/ATL two years ago.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

And you continue to ignore the change of Miller's performance on the field as to the reason for his increase in trade value.

Seems to me that you are projecting your disappointment with Heyward this year into an argument for a trade made two years ago.

Miller's career year in ATL is barely better than his 2013 numbers in STL. The only difference is his GB% which led to a lower HR/9. Miller was a good pitcher and Mo traded him for a hope and a prayer that St. Louis would woo Heyward.

And I'm not frustrated with Heyward, yet. I knew he was a project when they signed him and the Cubs have already made it known they aren't going to change his mechanics until the season is over. If he comes back next year with the same swing then I'll be frustrated.