KC Star: Chiefs and Vikes talking JA trade

[BigRedChief]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/v-p...ry/581131.html

Viking and Bucs talk about a trade for Chiefs Jared Allen


By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

In one sense, the possible departure of Pro Bowl defensive end Jared Allen would be nothing new for the Chiefs.

They’ve lost premier defensive players before. Just in the last several years, the Chiefs had to replace cornerstones such as Derrick Thomas, Neil Smith, Albert Lewis and James Hasty.

The difference is those players were at or near the end of their careers. The 26-year-old Allen, suddenly the subject of heated-up trade talks, is in his prime — and that may make him the most difficult to replace, if it came to that.

The Chiefs have talked with the Minnesota Vikings and Tampa Bay Buccaneers about a trade involving Allen, who led the NFL in sacks last season. Allen is in Minnesota meeting with the Vikings today, and a visit to Tampa could follow soon.

“He was the most disruptive player on that defense, that’s for sure,” said former Chiefs quarterback Rich Gannon, now a game analyst for CBS. “The thing I really like about him is that he plays with a lot of energy and effort. He doesn’t take plays off. He shows up in the running game. Those are things you like at that position. As a pure pass rusher, he runs the edge so well. It’s hard to find guys who can do that.

“When you lose a player like that, you don’t just find a replacement easily.”

Allen, the Chiefs’ franchise player, has wanted out of Kansas City since negotiations for a long-term contract broke down last year. He has indicated he will not sign a long-term contract with the Chiefs if the sides don’t agree on a deal by July.

Allen had yet to discuss the particulars of a long-term contract with either the Vikings or Buccaneers. But a bigger obstacle could be an agreement between either team and the Chiefs on draft-choice compensation.
As the Chiefs’ franchise player, Allen is free to sign a contract offer sheet with any other team.

If he does, the Chiefs have the right to match the offer and retain Allen.
If they declined to match the offer, the Chiefs would receive two first-round draft picks in exchange.

It’s unlikely that either the Vikings or Bucs would be willing to part with two first-round picks as well as satisfy Allen’s financial demands with a long-term deal. But one team or both may be willing to part with a first-round and lower-round choice.

The NFL draft is April 26 and 27. The Vikings have the 17th pick in the first round, and the Bucs have the 20th pick. Minnesota has two third-round choices, including one obtained in an earlier trade with Denver.
If the Chiefs sent Allen to the Vikings for Minnesota’s first- and initial third-round selections, that would give Kansas City two of the draft’s top 17 picks and five of the first 73.

By merely engaging in talks with the Vikings and Bucs, the Chiefs have in effect indicated they would accept less than two first-round picks for Allen. It was unclear what changed the Chiefs’ thinking in this regard, though they appear to have made little or no progress in negotiating a long-term contract with Allen.

The Chiefs were cautious about giving Allen a long-term deal last year at least in part because of his two DUI arrests in Johnson County. He served a two-game NFL suspension at the beginning of last season for violation of the league’s substance-abuse policy and by all accounts appears to have changed his behavior in that regard.

In a statement released by the Chiefs, president/general manager Carl Peterson acknowledged discussions regarding a trade of Allen with teams he did not identify. A source indicated they were Minnesota, Tampa Bay and Jacksonville, though the Jaguars later backed out of the discussions.
“At this point,” Peterson said, “all of these discussions are preliminary.”
So depending on the developments of the next week, with the draft coming up, the Chiefs may be planning to select Allen’s replacement. One of the draft’s premier pass rushers, Ohio State’s Vernon Gholston, was invited Thursday to Arrowhead Stadium to meet with the Chiefs.

The Chiefs could obtain a replacement pass rusher by drafting Gholston or another top defensive end, Virginia’s Chris Long, with their first pick, which is fifth overall. They then could use the first-round pick obtained from Minnesota or Tampa Bay to draft an offensive lineman, another position of great need.

Although the unsigned Allen is a franchise player and technically available to the 31 other teams, the idea of him playing for any team other than the Chiefs next season had seemed farfetched. Few teams appeared willing to give the Chiefs two No. 1 draft picks, and the Chiefs had given no indication they would accept less.

So in that regard, Thursday’s news was stunning. One Chiefs defensive player who did not wish to be identified was angry that the Chiefs would even entertain thoughts of trading their best defensive player and one who at 26 fits in nicely with their youth movement.

It’s not often that a pass rusher in his prime moves from one team to another. In a sense, the Chiefs losing Allen would be like the Colts losing Dwight Freeney or the Dolphins losing Jason Taylor.

“Those guys have a little bit of a longer resume,” Gannon said. “But you’re on the right track. Jared Allen is still a dominant player at his position.”
Losing Allen wouldn’t necessarily gut the Chiefs’ defense. But the cover 2 system favored by coach Herm Edwards is based on the ability to get pressure on the quarterback without having to blitz.

Achieving that goal wouldn’t get any easier without Allen.
“He did everything for us,” said former Chiefs defensive lineman Jimmy Wilkerson, who signed as a free agent last month with Tampa Bay.
“Look at the numbers he put up in sacks, forced fumbles, tackles, percentage of playing time. All of that makes him a key player to that defense. Jared was the energy on the defensive line. He brought so much energy to the game that it motivated everybody else. If you lose him, that energy level isn’t the same.

“It will take a while for them to get somebody through the draft or through free-agency who can do the things for them that he can do. I guess they have a plan. Every team we played against was worried about Jared Allen. They knew what he could do.”
Unless the Chiefs hit it big in the draft, nobody on their defense will cause that kind of worry for opponents.

“It sets them back a few squares,” Gannon said. “He’s a cornerstone.”
“Having said that, I kind of like the move. When you look at that team and where they’re going, if they can get something for him, it’s a great way to build for the future. I don’t anticipate them going to the playoffs next year, with or without Jared Allen.

“There are a lot of other things that can go into it. They can look at his impact in the locker room, the practice field, the meeting rooms, the little run-ins he’s had. You have to take all of that into consideration and ask, ‘Is this a guy who’s going to continue to dominate for another five years, or has he kind of reached his peak?’ I’m sure the Chiefs anticipate he’ll be a great player next season, but what about the year after that?

“Maybe their answer is they’re not sure and they should get something for him while he’s hot. If that’s the case, then you move him.”

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

None of those players will have an impact like JA. Teams had to plan for JA-now they will bitch slap us every week. THAT is what you are not understanding. Fans like him because he plays his Ass off on the field-Not because they want a drinking buddy.

It would really suck to fill the 2 most important positions on offense with highly thought of players wouldn't it..

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Not that you haven't figured this out, but what he's saying is that there is little to no chance of the Chiefs (or maybe anyone) finding a talent like Jared Allen with those picks.

I agree with both of you. It's insanity to trade away a guy in his prime that is an elite player at a prime position, but it's very possible that you will cripple yourself as a team if said player screws up just once fi you keep him.

You can build a SB quality D around JA-without him-the Cheaps go 2-14.

[Adept Havelock]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

**** it, call the league.

We're forfeiting all of our picks this year. We haven't drafted well in the past, so why bother now....

It's a serious question. You all are trumpeting the draft picks like they are this teams salvation. I just want an honest answer from people claiming this what they have seen from Carl/Herm that makes them believe we can turn those picks into players that have even close to the impact on a game that Jared has.

It's the same question Rain Man asked repeatedly, (as have I) but no one seems to want to answer it. Could that because you don't believe it either? I suspect so.

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Do it. Don't give me stories about the exceptions. Build the stats and look at the long term, and tell me what our expected value from a 1st and 2nd round pick is.

I asked this several times yesterday, and got the most roundabout evasive answers I've seen outside of DC.

I suspect we aren't going to get an answer.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

You can build a SB quality D around JA-without him-the Cheaps go 2-14.

In case you haven't noticed this is about 3 years from now not next year, this team is not going to be good with or without him right now.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

Considering we drafted JA primarily because of his long-snapping ability, no kidding.

Drafting Jared Allen is akin to Mendy Lopez crushing a walk off home run to deepest center field to beat the White Sox on opening day - you never saw it coming, but couldn't be happier with the results.

[Rain Man]

If you can prove to me statistically that we'll get better performers on the field with a 1st and 2nd round pick instead of Jared Allen, I will type 100x "Dick Vermeil is better than Marty."

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

It's a serious question. You all are trumpeting the draft picks like they are this teams salvation. I just want an honest answer from people claiming this what they have seen from Carl/Herm that makes them believe we can turn those picks into players that have even close to the impact on a game that Jared has.

It's the same question Rain Man asked repeatedly, (as have I) but no one seems to want to answer it. Could that because you don't believe it either? I suspect so.

It's the only way you'll ever win, you have to atleast have hope in it because if you don't there is NO HOPE that the team will ever win.

If I viewed it like you and Rain Man I'd just ****in give up because that picture you paint is basically one with no hope of ever being anything, and people say that I'm negative.

[Bowser]

Side note: This is probably as fired up as I've Rain Man in my time here.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by Mecca

It would really suck to fill the 2 most important positions on offense with highly thought of players wouldn't it..

you can do that without giving away the BEST player this team has had since Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas.

Vikes will risk the 70 mil because the chances for a SB go up 10 fold. They will easily Dominate their division and maybe the NFC with JA killing the QBs-Orton, Rodgers, and all the other shitty NFC QB's.

JA will have 18 plus sacks every season over the next 4 to 6 years and play on a contender-I really doubt that he cares about your opinion.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Side note: This is probably as fired up as I've Rain Man in my time here.

Do it. Seriously.


Or wait. Are you on my side?

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

I can't believe you are comparing the clowns in out front office to the Pats, Colts and Chargers. WTF have you seen that makes you think for a second our draft ability is anywhere near that level? Nothing, I suspect.



Considering we drafted JA primarily because of his long-snapping ability, no kidding.

Well, Jesus Christ, let's not even bother drafting then.

[Adept Havelock]

Originally Posted by Mecca

If I viewed it like you and Rain Man I'd just ****in give up because that picture you paint is basically one with no hope of ever being anything, and people say that I'm negative.

Heh. Thanks for the advice, but I out waited that idiot Steadman, and I'll do the same to Carl.

It's a simple question. I can't imagine why you won't give a direct answer. What have you seen from Carl/Herm that gives you any faith in their ability to draft even close to the level of the Colts, Pats, Bolts, Etc. ?

Originally Posted by Brock

Well, Jesus Christ, let's not even bother drafting then.

More evasion, but no answer.

I suspect you haven't seen anything to support it, which is why you all keep dodging a simple question.


Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, but answering it would be a little more intellectually honest than dancing around it again and again.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Mecca

It's the only way you'll ever win, you have to atleast have hope in it because if you don't there is NO HOPE that the team will ever win.
.

No. As usual, you are wrong.

You win by drafting, developing and KEEPING your young talented players. There is no point drafting and developing if you don't keep them through their prime playing time.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by Mr Flopnuts

Actually, nothing will feel as gross as it did the day I learned Derrick had died. I took that harder than most deaths I've experienced in life.

If that includes friends, peers, or family members then you are a complete ****ing tool.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Adept Havelock

It's a serious question. You all are trumpeting the draft picks like they are this teams salvation. I just want an honest answer from people claiming this what they have seen from Carl/Herm that makes them believe we can turn those picks into players that have even close to the impact on a game that Jared has.

It's the same question Rain Man asked repeatedly, (as have I) but no one seems to want to answer it. Could that because you don't believe it either? I suspect so.





I asked this several times yesterday, and got the most roundabout evasive answers I've seen outside of DC. I suspect we aren't going to get an answer.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not necessarily "trumpeting" the draft picks.

Seeing as how they would probably play different positions, it be pretty hard to gauge what is better for the team.

I think that overall, -insert players here- could do more for this team long term together than Allen could do by himself.

My biggest issue with this is the money he wants and the risks he possesses.