Chiefs How patient will YOU be with Brodie Croyle? - Page 11

TRR · 07-22-2008, 02:18 PM

Nearing training camp, I'm starting to wonder how soon fellow KC fans will start throwing Croyle under the bus. Last season, Croyle struggled, but had no real help to give KC fans an honest look at what he can do. This season, the line should be a bit better, a healthy LJ should give him a legitimate playmaker in the backfield, and an entire offseason of working as the starting QB could only help...

BUT...

I remember how impatient KC fans were with Trent Green. Most were ready to kill him after the 2001 season, and still weren't happy with him after the 2002 season. Even at the end, after Green became one of the great Chiefs QB's in recent memory, fans were quick to rip him apart, and resurrect the name "TrINT".

My question is, (1) how long will you give Croyle to prove himself? Half the season? All season? And (2) what does he need to do to be brought back as the starting QB for the 2009 season?

Thoughts...

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-22-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

If there weren't 52 other guys on a team that are responsible for a team reaching/winning a SB, then I'd be on board with you.

For me, 58% isn't an overwhelming-enough number to overlook the stats regarding 1st round QB busts and the crippling effects they have on a franchise.

I'm not saying you NEVER take that chance, but in a weak QB class like this year, the smart move is to pass, IMO. Especially when you have a kid who you think is your guy, and he only has six starts under his belt.

Duuuuuude.

You're missing the point. There have been over 12,000 football players drafted during the past 42 years. Out of those 12k players, only a select few have played in the Super Bowl. Out of those select few, of the 42 teams that have won the Super Bowl, 58% of the time, it's been won by a first round choice.

That mean that the odds are infintessimal that it will be won by a QB NOT chosen in the first round.

Since 2000, the Super Bowls been won by a 6th rounder (who by all accounts would have been chosen #1 overall, had every team not had shit for brains), two undrafted players (Johnson & Warner), both of whom played in the World League, and the rest by first rounders (Manning, Manning, Rothlisberger & Dilfer).

In today's NFL, you're going to need a first round QB to even sniff the Super Bowl.

Micjones · 07-22-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Dude, it's ****ing Farve. AND you are 1!!!! player away from the SB.(arguably) That's totally different.

That team is not 1 player away from a Superbowl trip.
And if they were confident in Tavaris Jackson there'd be no reason to even pick up the phone.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Dude, it's ****ing Farve. AND you are 1!!!! player away from the SB.(arguably) That's totally different.

No shit.

They were so worried about Jackson that they drafted precisely ZERO QB's in rounds 1-4 as an insurance policy, now he's using one of the greatest QB's of all ****ing time to try to make a really poorly thought out point.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

That team is not 1 player away from a Superbowl trip.
And if they were confident in Tavaris Jackson there'd be no reason to even pick up the phone.

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-22-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT COMPLETELY!!

I am saying that Eli Manning was given more of a shot in NY because he was a 1st round draft pick. If Manning was a 4th rounder, he would have been benched way before last season ever took place.

And I say NO ****ING WAY

The Giants weren't going to "give up" on Eli Manning. Ever.

They KNEW he had the goods. Otherwise, they wouldn't have traded up for him. Get it?

Micjones · 07-22-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

My God, I know you're not reeruned, but you sure go out of your way to appear that way.

Ad hominem fallacies...
Cute.

When your arguments fail you. Personal attacks to the rescue!!!

Quote:

You're saying the kid DOESN'T HAVE TALENT. I'm not debating his injury history.

Never said that.
Talent means dick though if you don't have the intangibles.
Ryan Leaf had talent.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Duuuuuude.

You're missing the point. There have been over 12,000 football players drafted during the past 42 years. Out of those 12k players, only a select few have played in the Super Bowl. Out of those select few, of the 42 teams that have won the Super Bowl, 58% of the time, it's been won by a first round choice.

That mean that the odds are infintessimal that it will be won by a QB NOT chosen in the first round.

Since 2000, the Super Bowls been won by a 6th rounder (who by all accounts would have been chosen #1 overall, had every team not had shit for brains), two undrafted players (Johnson & Warner), both of whom played in the World League, and the rest by first rounders (Manning, Manning, Rothlisberger & Dilfer).

In today's NFL, you're going to need a first round QB to even sniff the Super Bowl.

Tell that to Matt Hasselbeck and Marc Bulger...

Micjones · 07-22-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And I say NO ****ING WAY

The Giants weren't going to "give up" on Eli Manning. Ever.

They KNEW he had the goods. Otherwise, they wouldn't have traded up for him. Get it?

They never gave up because he was a #1 overall pick.
You don't give up on those players until you've exhausted every effort in their development.

That CANNOT be argued.
Just stop...

beach tribe · 07-22-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

That team is not 1 player away from a Superbowl trip.
And if they were confident in Tavaris Jackson there'd be no reason to even pick up the phone.

Minnesota believes they are "right there", and honestly, they are STACKED.

Farve could take them to the bowl, TJ can't, but if they can't get a legend, then TJ will get a chance to develop.

beach tribe · 07-22-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

They never gave up because he was a #1 overall pick.
You don't give up on those players until you've exhausted every effort in their development.

That CANNOT be argued.
Just stop...

And you just proved OTWP's point. Maybe you didn't understand.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

Ad hominem fallacies...
Cute.

When your arguments fail you. Personal attacks to the rescue!!!

Never said that.
Talent means dick though if you don't have the intangibles.
Ryan Leaf had talent.

My arguments aren't the one's failing...do you have a mirror in your house?

And if you know as much about football as you claim, you'd know that almost every scouting report on Croyle at Bama praised his intangibles.

It takes a leader to go 10-2 with that shitpile of a team that surrounded him in 2005...

beach tribe · 07-22-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT COMPLETELY!!

I am saying that Eli Manning was given more of a shot in NY because he was a 1st round draft pick. If Manning was a 4th rounder, he would have been benched way before last season ever took place.

Sorry, I meant TRR's point.

**DaneMcCloud** · 07-22-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Tell that to Matt Hasselbeck and Marc Bulger...

Dude, I'm talking 2008.

Not 2000. Not 1998. Not 1968.

These guys are so thoroughly evaluated that it's not even funny. The fact that Tom Brady slipped down to the 6th round is ridiculous and I doubt that will happen again in the next 20 years.

Why did Baltimore move up to draft Joe Flacco, who most teams thought would go in the 2nd? Because they saw something no one else did. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong.

But if he wins a Super Bowl, it'll be as a first round selection.

Not a second. Not a third.

A first.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-22-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Dude, I'm talking 2008.

Not 2000. Not 1998. Not 1968.

These guys are so thoroughly evaluated that it's not even funny. The fact that Tom Brady slipped down to the 6th round is ridiculous and I doubt that will happen again in the next 20 years.

Why did Baltimore move up to draft Joe Flacco, who most teams thought would go in the 2nd? Because they saw something no one else did. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong.

But if he wins a Super Bowl, it'll be as a first round selection.

Not a second. Not a third.

A first.

Wow, so a 6th rounder "sniffing" the SB 3 years ago is completely invalid.

Gotcha.

TRR · 07-22-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And I say NO ****ING WAY

The Giants weren't going to "give up" on Eli Manning. Ever.

They KNEW he had the goods. Otherwise, they wouldn't have traded up for him. Get it?

Exactly. 1st rounders are given more of a window than guys drafted in the 3rd round and beyond. That was exactly my point.

07-22-2008, 02:18 PM
TRR The Priest and I Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CO Casino cash: $9870185	How patient will YOU be with Brodie Croyle? Nearing training camp, I'm starting to wonder how soon fellow KC fans will start throwing Croyle under the bus. Last season, Croyle struggled, but had no real help to give KC fans an honest look at what he can do. This season, the line should be a bit better, a healthy LJ should give him a legitimate playmaker in the backfield, and an entire offseason of working as the starting QB could only help... BUT... I remember how impatient KC fans were with Trent Green. Most were ready to kill him after the 2001 season, and still weren't happy with him after the 2002 season. Even at the end, after Green became one of the great Chiefs QB's in recent memory, fans were quick to rip him apart, and resurrect the name "TrINT". My question is, (1) how long will you give Croyle to prove himself? Half the season? All season? And (2) what does he need to do to be brought back as the starting QB for the 2009 season? Thoughts...
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