Video of Police shooting man 30+ times

[Mr. Laz]

Video captures Michigan man's shooting by police
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/us/mic...ing/index.html

From Jason Carroll and Sheila Steffen, CNN
updated 10:12 AM EDT, Fri August 17, 2012

Man killed by cops, shot multiple times

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Milton Hall was killed in a confrontation with police in Saginaw, Michigan
• "It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," his mother says
• Prosecutors and state police are investigating Hall's killing
• His family says he was mentally ill and questions why the probe is taking so long

Saginaw, Michigan (CNN) -- Three days before Independence Day, Milton Hall died in a fusillade of police gunfire outside a strip mall.
He had been arguing with officers in a parking lot next to a shuttered Chinese restaurant when he was shot, in full view of passing motorists and while he was holding some sort of knife. Saginaw County Prosecutor Michael Thomas said later that the squad of police confronting him opened fire "because apparently, at this point in time, he was threatening to assault police."

Thomas' office and the Michigan State Police are investigating Hall's death. Saginaw Police Chief Gerald Cliff said Hall was "known to be an assaultive person" with "a long history" of contacts with law enforcement, "not only with police from our department but with the county."
Hall's cousin, Mike Washington, acknowledged Hall had been jailed for minor offenses like vagrancy in the past, but, "He was not violent." And Hall's mother is growing impatient with the probe and questions why police opened fire so furiously on her son, whom she said was mentally ill.

The chart blog: Mental health

"It appeared to be a firing squad dressed in police uniforms," Jewel Hall told CNN from her hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. "There was another way. They did not have to kill him. He had not done anything. He was not violent. He was not a murderer. He was not a criminal."
Jewel Hall said her son had once trained as a civil right activist, been an avid reader and played football. He had lived in Saginaw for 35 years and received Social Security disability payments for a mental illness, but, "He knew his rights."

"Everybody knew him. The police knew him well," she said. "So that's another question: they knew him, so why? Why did they kill him?"

WJRT: Community questions police shooting

The July 1 shooting happened in a parking lot on West Genessee Avenue, a busy commercial strip on the north side of Saginaw. In a video purchased by CNN, shot by a motorist from across the street, the 49-year-old Hall is seen arguing with a half-dozen officers. For more than three minutes, he walks back and forth, and at one time appears to crouch in a "karate stance," according to the man who captured the scene.

Police said Hall had just had a run-in with a convenience store clerk. On the video, he tells police, "My name is Milton Hall, I just called 911. My name is Milton, and I'm p---ed off." When an officer tells him to put the knife down, he responds, "I ain't putting s--t down." He appears unimpressed by a police dog, telling officers, "Let him go. Let the motherf---ing dog go."

Finally, he turns to the left of the frame, where another officer had moved out of view a short time earlier. It's then that the police open fire with a reported 46 shots in a five-second hail of bullets.
"I'm stunned that six human beings would stand in front of one human being and fire 46 shots," Jewel Hall said. "I just don't understand that. It's a lot of pain in that because it only takes one shot, so the question is why?"

She questioned why none of the cameras in the police cars at the scene recorded the shooting -- "none of them work."

"So that's the question I have and the community has is, what's taking so long?" she said. "Why is not being transparent?"

Lou Palumbo, a former Long Island police officer, told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that the video is "a perceptive nightmare" for a police department and could reflect a lack of training by the officers.

"This wasn't a scenario where he was discharging a weapon in their direction," he said.

But Palumbo added that the shooting may yet be determined to be justifiable. "One of the things the public has to understand, an individual wielding a knife at you at about 20 feet can be on top of you in a split second," he said. "The public doesn't know this because they don't do this for a living."

Neither state police nor the prosecutor's office would comment on the investigation. In a written statement to CNN, the state police said, "Our focus is on conducting a complete and thorough investigation, rather than a hasty one."

But Saginaw City Councilman Norman Braddock, who also has criticized the pace of the investigation, said the probe should be a "top priority."
When CNN showed Braddock the video, which he hadn't seen before, he said, "This is disturbing."

"I can see what people are traumatized at, looking at something like that," Braddock said. "We need answers."

Jewel Hall said her family is conducting its own investigation into the shooting, "and at the end of that investigation we will decide what next steps to take with our legal advisors."

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Brock

I wouldn't have sent the dog either. 2 or 3 cops with sticks would have made short work of this guy and sent him to the nuthouse more or less unharmed. This was just pure laziness combined with stupidity.

Sort of like Rodney King?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by vailpass

OK but you don't expect police officers to engage in hand to hand combat with a knife wielding mad man do you?

No. But to continue firing 14 times AFTER the guy has been dropped is justified by what?

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Donger

Sort of like Rodney King?

Yeah, sure. Minus the whole beating him senseless after he's been taken down.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Can someone tell if the cops had him surrounded? If not then it seems pretty clear when he took his steps he did not step towards the officers. In fact it looks like he was stepping on the other direction. I am trying to see if he started to turn his back to them.

This was already covered.

[kysirsoze]

I'm not too worried about the 30 shots. As has been said, once lethal force is justified, that's it. I just have to ask, if tazers aren't the answer here, then what the **** are they for?

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by petegz28

No. But to continue firing 14 times AFTER the guy has been dropped is justified by what?

Don't know enough to say. Don't know why they couldn't try to taze him first. Just know it is ridiculous to expect an officer to engage an armed man in hand to hand combat when he has other options.

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by petegz28

BTW, do you even realize how many rounds can be fired in 5 seconds? I can empty my 15 round clip in 5 seconds. Now multiply that by 6.

Accuracy count at all, or just closing your eyes and pulling the trigger. I'm an extremely good shot, and have been shooting for over 20 years, I'd say 5 seconds = about 6-8 shots accurately.

Of course if we were both shooting at a knife wielding maniac that number may go up, and accuracy may go down. Even for some as awesome as we are.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by Donger

This was already covered.

And the verdict was?

[Donger]

Originally Posted by crazycoffey

It's true, in the breeding process the skin gets extra leathery and combine that with the long hair of the German Shepard, they are extremely knife resistant.

How accurate are tasers on a moving target? I presume the little zapper thingy doesn't move at the same velocity as a bullet?

[Donger]

Originally Posted by petegz28

And the verdict was?

There were two cops over near the bush, and the dead guy moved toward them with a knife in his hand, and was therefore shot.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by crazycoffey

Accuracy count at all, or just closing your eyes and pulling the trigger. I'm an extremely good shot, and have been shooting for over 20 years, I'd say 5 seconds = about 6-8 shots accurately.

Of course if we were both shooting at a knife wielding maniac that number may go up, and accuracy may go down. Even for some as awesome as we are.

At the range they were at I could empty 15 shots and be fairly confident I am going to hit on almost every one if not every one.

[crazycoffey]

Originally Posted by vailpass

OK but you don't expect police officers to engage in hand to hand combat with a knife wielding mad man do you?

The cops should have glared at the man and said, "that's not a knife, this is a knife" and then they could have tied their left hand to the man's left hand and had a good old fashion stickin' contest. Real men would have handled it that way....

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by petegz28

At the range they were at I could empty 15 shots and be fairly confident I am going to hit on almost every one if not every one.

And you're absolutely incorrect.

They have done numerous studies on the effect of stressors on highly trained marksmen (soldiers, officers, etc...) and have found that marksmanship turns to crap pretty quickly once faced with immediate danger.

You see it all the time in shootouts - nobody hits shit. Very few people have the ability to control their adrenaline in that situation well enough to still be an accurate shot under duress.

[Titty Meat]

**** the police

[Donger]

Huh. He was apparently hit "only" 10 times.