Gas on the Fire: Shutdown Corner Gives Chiefs "F" in FA.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm curious, you've always been one of piolis biggest critics, so if he was as bad as you say, should we not be in somewhat of a rebuild? Or did he bring in so much talent that it's not warranted?

Pioli is a moot point when you trade for a 29 year old QB for two draft picks. I'd be fine with a rebuild if you weren't giving away picks for a soon to be now 30 year old QB in year 2.

If you wanna rebuild that's fine, tank the seasons, keep your picks, and use those 2nd rounds to build a core.

Seattle punted their first two seasons on shitty QBs and kept their draft picks.

This team painted itself in a corner to its fans by bringing in Alex Smith and Andy Reid won me over as a gigantic Alex Smith fan in year 1. Alex Smith's play for the Chiefs is some of the best QB play in a QB league we have seen on the Chiefs since Trent Green. So how dare I as a fan want them to put as much talent around him like DV did with Green even if it means sacrificing future years or cap money. I don't give a shit what happens in 2016 or 2017 if it means a chance to win in 2014 or 2015 with a guy that A) has been to an NFC Championship B) has shown he can win in the playoffs C) Will be better than whatever QB we draft/backup we trade for after him. Alex Smith bucks the trend of shitty retread backups we trade for because unlike the Bonos and Grbacs, Alex Smith is actually a decent NFL QB. He falls in that tier of a Cutler or Rivers that can move a ****ing offense.

This isn't a position where we have Christian Ponder and Matt Cassel as our QB options or Matt Schaub and Matt McGloin, we have a capable NFL starting QB that can win and I'm not sure why you would want to tread water with that for future picks?

You sold me on Alex Smith and I became a fan, now I want you to win something with him. How does that make me a bad fan?

[Easy 6]

Sacc, I think the point you're missing is that very few, if any, people were wanting a drunken spending spree...

a) we didn't have the money, even if we redid a few guys deals.

b) most people these days are savvy enough to understand that that's not the way to remain relevant.

Most seem only to have wanted 2 players, and atleast in my mind, they didn't have to be marquee guys, just solid, youngish vets who could step right in, produce and give us so many more options in the draft.

2 legit starters, one for each side of the ball... I just don't see how that's asking too much.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

Pioli is a moot point when you trade for a 29 year old QB for two draft picks. I'd be fine with a rebuild if you weren't giving away picks for a soon to be now 30 year old QB in year 2.

If you wanna rebuild that's fine, tank the seasons, keep your picks, and use those 2nd rounds to build a core.

Seattle punted their first two seasons on shitty QBs and kept their draft picks.

This team painted itself in a corner to its fans by bringing in Alex Smith and Andy Reid won me over as a gigantic Alex Smith fan in year 1. Alex Smith's play for the Chiefs is some of the best QB play in a QB league we have seen on the Chiefs since Trent Green. So how dare I as a fan want them to put as much talent around him like DV did with Green even if it means sacrificing future years or cap money. I don't give a shit what happens in 2016 or 2017 if it means a chance to win in 2014 or 2015 with a guy that A) has been to an NFC Championship B) has shown he can win in the playoffs C) Will be better than whatever QB we draft/backup we trade for after him. Alex Smith bucks the trend of shitty retread backups we trade for because unlike the Bonos and Grbacs, Alex Smith is actually a decent NFL QB. He falls in that tier of a Cutler or Rivers that can move a ****ing offense.

This isn't a position where we have Christian Ponder and Matt Cassel as our QB options or Matt Schaub and Matt McGloin, we have a capable NFL starting QB that can win and I'm not sure why you would want to tread water with that for future picks?

You sold me on Alex Smith and I became a fan, now I want you to win something with him. How does that make me a bad fan?

I agree. And I never said you were a bad fan, nor do I think they feel they're rebuilding.

They're banking in this core being good enough, and along with their coaching, being able to develop players around them now.

It's a risk sure.

But again, I'm not sure how many times this current core has ha the same exact system am philosophies 2 straight years. Perhaps with continuity in said system, they don't need more high prices free agents

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Nope. But I don't see how trading for a QB makes any sense last year.

They should have traded Albert last season. They should have signed a seat warmer QB and taken a chance on a rookie that would've best fit Reid' system and let Bowe play on a franchise tag. If no QB was worth taking last year then they should have found a way to get extra picks in this year's draft to have the firepower to get a guy like Manziel or Bridgewater or whoever.

But they didn't and have set themselves up with a very hard road to improve the team for the next few seasons.

Tell me who is a better QB than Smith based on the last two free agency periods and last two drafts?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

Pioli is a moot point when you trade for a 29 year old QB for two draft picks. I'd be fine with a rebuild if you weren't giving away picks for a soon to be now 30 year old QB in year 2.

If you wanna rebuild that's fine, tank the seasons, keep your picks, and use those 2nd rounds to build a core.

Seattle punted their first two seasons on shitty QBs and kept their draft picks.

This team painted itself in a corner to its fans by bringing in Alex Smith and Andy Reid won me over as a gigantic Alex Smith fan in year 1. Alex Smith's play for the Chiefs is some of the best QB play in a QB league we have seen on the Chiefs since Trent Green. So how dare I as a fan want them to put as much talent around him like DV did with Green even if it means sacrificing future years or cap money. I don't give a shit what happens in 2016 or 2017 if it means a chance to win in 2014 or 2015 with a guy that A) has been to an NFC Championship B) has shown he can win in the playoffs C) Will be better than whatever QB we draft/backup we trade for after him. Alex Smith bucks the trend of shitty retread backups we trade for because unlike the Bonos and Grbacs, Alex Smith is actually a decent NFL QB. He falls in that tier of a Cutler or Rivers that can move a ****ing offense.

This isn't a position where we have Christian Ponder and Matt Cassel as our QB options or Matt Schaub and Matt McGloin, we have a capable NFL starting QB that can win and I'm not sure why you would want to tread water with that for future picks?

You sold me on Alex Smith and I became a fan, now I want you to win something with him. How does that make me a bad fan?

The Seahawks traded a 3rd and fell 20 spots in the second for Whitehurst.

The next year, they did NOTHING in free agency.

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by O.city

I agree. And I never said you were a bad fan, nor do I think they feel they're rebuilding.

They're banking in this core being good enough, and along with their coaching, being able to develop players around them now.

It's a risk sure.

But again, I'm not sure how many times this current core has ha the same exact system am philosophies 2 straight years. Perhaps with continuity in said system, they don't need more high prices free agents

The problem is them sitting still while other teams "try" to upgrade is making some fans concerned, including myself.

Yea you don't "win" in FA, but even the GOOD franchises, that actually win Super Bowls, they still go after a decently sized FA once every year.

The problem with the Chiefs is they would rather sign 5 or 6 JAGs to these shitty small 3-12 million contracts (Mays, Fasano, Devito, Walker, Avery, etc) rather than just signing ONE quality FA to a mid sized 25-30 million contract.

You have to pick your spots carefully. Seattle decided to splash on Percy Harvin and let Golden Tate walk a year later, probably because they are deep at WR and can replace him in a WR deep draft coming up. But a guy like Michael Bennett is VERY important to hand out a mid sized contract to because good pass rushers are a lot rare than 800 yard WRs.

Steelers cut Lamarr Woodley, let Emmanuel Sanders walk but decided to hand out a decently sized contract to a 26 year old hard hitting safety coming off a career year that fits Steelers football to a 25 million dollar deal.

These teams don't just sign 5 JAGs to shitty small contracts. They use their draft picks to fill those holes, then identify important positions like pass rusher, safety and hand out a decently sized contract to one quality FA.

It's all about picking your spots, and so far to me, John Dorsey hasn't picked the right spots in FA. these 3-12 million dollar JAG players don't cut it for me, they are band aids that look awful on Sunday because they are below par players.

I would rather have signed Jarius Byrd at the price of a Mays, Walker, Devito, Fasano, Avery and then fill their spots with the rookies/UDFAs than band aid all those positions with average guys + one rookie at FS like they are currently doing.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

The problem is them sitting still while other teams "try" to upgrade is making some fans concerned, including myself.

Yea you don't "win" in FA, but even the GOOD franchises, that actually win Super Bowls, they still go after a decently sized FA once every year.

The problem with the Chiefs is they would rather sign 5 or 6 JAGs to these shitty small 3-12 million contracts (Mays, Fasano, Devito, Walker, Avery, etc) rather than just signing ONE quality FA to a mid sized 25-30 million contract.

You have to pick your spots carefully. Seattle decided to splash on Percy Harvin and let Golden Tate walk a year later, probably because they are deep at WR and can replace him in a WR deep draft coming up. But a guy like Michael Bennett is VERY important to hand out a mid sized contract to because good pass rushers are a lot rare than 800 yard WRs.

Steelers cut Lamarr Woodley, let Emmanuel Sanders walk but decided to hand out a decently sized contract to a 26 year old hard hitting safety coming off a career year that fits Steelers football to a 25 million dollar deal.

These teams don't just sign 5 JAGs to shitty small contracts. They use their draft picks to fill those holes, then identify important positions like pass rusher, safety and hand out a decently sized contract to one quality FA.

It's all about picking your spots, and so far to me, John Dorsey hasn't picked the right spots in FA. these 3-12 million dollar JAG players don't cut it for me, they are band aids that look awful on Sunday because they are below par players.

I would rather have signed Jarius Byrd at the price of a Mays, Walker, Devito, Fasano, Avery and then fill their spots with the rookies/UDFAs than band aid all those positions with average guys + one rookie at FS like they are currently doing.

The Seahawks didn't do anything in 2011.

The pats didn't do anything 2012 or 2013.

Tell me about the five years of aggressive free agent moves the niners have made.

This idea that great teams are consistently aggressive I'm free agency is a ridiculous myth. Most great teams go through phases of pretty aggressive and sometimes very inactive.

And give me a break... The Steelers rarely us free agency.

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The Seahawks traded a 3rd and fell 20 spots in the second for Whitehurst.

The next year, they did NOTHING in free agency.

If by nothing you mean handing out a 5 year 34 million dollar deal to Zach Miller and a 5 year 40 million dollar deal to Sidney Rice as NOTHING in FA in 2011. Then yea sure, I guess that's "nothing" in FA.

If that's nothing I can't imagine what the Chiefs are currently doing.

[ForeverChiefs58]

Vance Walker last year had 3 sacks (career high before- 3), 29 tackles (career high before-21) and 11 ast. (career high before-11), has played 5 yrs in NFL

Tyson Jackson last year had 4 sacks (career high before-3) 24 tackles (career high before- 37) and 9 ast (career high before-18), has played 5 yrs in NFL



Eleven 3-4 defensive ends got more pressure in 2013 than Jackson has generated in five years in Kansas City. He has posted just 38 pressures in his pro career. To put that into some perspective, J.J. Watt notched 85 last season alone, more than twice as many.

Vance Walker totaled 41 pressures – or three more than Jackson has in his entire career – for the Raiders in 2013

Jackson’s 38 career pressures statistic provided on average 0.5 quarterback pressures per game over his career in Kansas City (74 games).

It is virtually impossible for the Chiefs to get less pass rush production from Jackson’s spot on the defensive line. But pretty tough to get excited about his replacment

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by scott free

Sacc, I think the point you're missing is that very few, if any, people were wanting a drunken spending spree...

a) we didn't have the money, even if we redid a few guys deals.

b) most people these days are savvy enough to understand that that's not the way to remain relevant.

Most seem only to have wanted 2 players, and atleast in my mind, they didn't have to be marquee guys, just solid, youngish vets who could step right in, produce and give us so many more options in the draft.

2 legit starters, one for each side of the ball... I just don't see how that's asking too much.

And who would that be?

Personally, I'm glad that Sanders went with the Donkeys. I think he's mediocre and provides us with the ability to fill that hole with a better talent such as Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks or Marquis Lee.

On the defensive side of the ball, we just don't need the injuries that we suffered at the end of the season. Who is going to be a starter for this team on that side of the ball as it related to free agency versus what they can get in the draft?

2014 was a shitty free agency. I frankly don't care that they didn't make any major signings through that avenue.

We have a couple of guys who they were hoping to be impact players last season in Kelce and Sanders. We've got the whole team and coaching staff with a year under their belt now.

They will build the team. Through the draft in 2014.

I don't see how that is a head first dive off the bridge versus signing and overpaying for a couple of mediocre talents in the free agent market.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

It was widely talked about that the 49ers were shopping Alex Smith.

He was a free agent in 2012. He could have been had for zero picks. Nobody wanted him.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by mcaj22

I would rather have signed Jarius Byrd at the price of a Mays, Walker, Devito, Fasano, Avery and then fill their spots with the rookies/UDFAs than band aid all those positions with average guys + one rookie at FS like they are currently doing.

Jesus dude...

You are going nuts about filling the current holes with draft picks and yet you want to scrap all the experience on the team for one ****ing free safety?

Really?

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jesus dude...

You are going nuts about filling the current holes with draft picks and yet you want to scrap all the experience on the team for one ****ing free safety?

Really?

There's a difference between 5 experienced shitty players and 1 experienced good player.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

So you were wrong last year, but not this time?

Some were so sure it was the wrong move last year, they won 11 games and made the playoffs. Yet now they're wrong again, before we've seen any actual games.

I dunno, did they not earn any trust?

Of course we could be wrong again.

However, we've already established that we can man up and admit a mistake.

I wanna know if all the balls-deep people on here are going to return the favor if they tank next season or if this is how football discussion on CP is going to be from now on.

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Of course we could be wrong again.

However, we've already established that we can man up and admit a mistake.

I wanna know if all the balls-deep people on here are going to return the favor if they tank next season or if this is how football discussion on CP is going to be from now on.

Don't those people want them to tank? They are playing both sides

if the Chiefs win and still make the playoffs while in the "rebuild/transition" year then those people win with an easy "I told you so/suck it/eat crow"

if the Chiefs lose and have a horrible season those people can still use their excuses of "comp picks in '15/we're rebuilding/it's okay guys" flip.

They can't lose no matter what the Chiefs do