Other Sports The MIA Heat Show Thread - Page 113

**DaKCMan AP** · 07-09-2010, 09:30 AM

LA will be dethroned. The LAC Lake Show will be dead. So it's time to create a thread to follow the new dynasty.

Going on tour starting this October.

WebGem · 03-09-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Why? Tons of talented players never won rings.

This might be just me, but I really don't feel there was ever anyone (in the basketball I've seen [94-present]) not named Michael Jordan that seemed as dominant as LeBron. And MJ won 6. Plus the guys you're probably thinking of (Ewing, Barkley, Malone) are all the guys on the teams who were the last teams the Bulls had to beat in a decent percentage of those seasons. If it wasn't for the Bulls, Ewing would definitely have one, so would Malone, and Barkley possibly.

Again that's just me. But I'm sure most people would at the very least say (right now) they'd be pretty surprised if he retires without one, and a lot of people would be shocked.

DJ's left nut · 03-09-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Why? Tons of talented players never won rings.

Nobody this talented.

He'll win one. He'll probably win 2 or 3 even.

But there's no reason at all that he shouldn't have won a couple by now. Everyone wants to make excused for him, but the bottom line is that he absolutely had the pieces around him to win a championship the last 2 seasons and was actually in the finals before that.

If you get that guy a low-post game and some mid-range weapons as well, he's a level of player we've never seen.

**dirk digler** · 03-09-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

His ball-handling is no better and his passing is the same as it's ever been, but Brown let him bring the ball up the court every time last season so his assists went up. This season, they're right back in line with what they've always been.

His turnovers are up. His 3pt% is the same, FT% the same. He's improved a little as a rebounder, but in Miami he's pretty much their lone big man so who else is there?

He made a huge leap forward in his 2nd year in the league when he adjusted to the speed and that's it. He's not an appreciably better player now than he was when he was 20 years old. What improvements have come have come through simple experience, not added effort.

I was looking at his stats and outside of his first year they are remarkably consistent.

KC_Connection · 03-09-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebGem

This might be just me, but I really don't feel there was ever anyone (in the basketball I've seen [94-present]) not named Michael Jordan that seemed as dominant as LeBron. And MJ won 6. Plus the guys you're probably thinking of (Ewing, Barkley, Malone) are all the guys on the teams who were the last teams the Bulls had to beat in a decent percentage of those seasons. If it wasn't for the Bulls, Ewing would definitely have one, so would Malone, and Barkley possibly.

Again that's just me. But I'm sure most people would at the very least say (right now) they'd be pretty surprised if he retires without one, and a lot of people would be shocked.

That's because there hasn't been. In recent years, I had hopes that Vince would be dominant, but he never cared enough about winning to do accomplish anything. Kobe worked hard to become one of the better scorers in NBA history, but he still can't match up to Jordan and never will. LeBron stands out in his era, clearly.

**dirk digler** · 03-09-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

The interesting thing to watch with LeBron will be whether he makes any adjustments when he begins the decline in his career.

I agree and I believe that is when you will see him go to the post game more.

Though he might to want to start adjusting now after I saw him unable to beat Noah off the dribble the other night against the Bulls

Just Passin' By · 03-09-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebGem

This might be just me, but I really don't feel there was ever anyone (in the basketball I've seen [94-present]) not named Michael Jordan that seemed as dominant as LeBron. And MJ won 6. Plus the guys you're probably thinking of (Ewing, Barkley, Malone) are all the guys on the teams who were the last teams the Bulls had to beat in a decent percentage of those seasons. If it wasn't for the Bulls, Ewing would definitely have one, so would Malone, and Barkley possibly.

Again that's just me. But I'm sure most people would at the very least say (right now) they'd be pretty surprised if he retires without one, and a lot of people would be shocked.

You never saw Shaq play in his prime? He was a far more dominant player than James has been to date.

DJ's left nut · 03-09-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I agree and I believe that is when you will see him go to the post game more.

Though he might to want to start adjusting now after I saw him unable to beat Noah off the dribble the other night against the Bulls

The miles add up faster than we think.

LeBron James is a very big man with a lot of weight on his joints. Yeah, he's always been alarmingly quick and agile for his size, but he's also playing hell on his joints when he gets that much mass moving that quickly.

He has 670 NBA games on the odometer. He's still quick, but as you've mentioned, he's looked a little less explosive (relying on raw power).

He doesn't have 10 more years in this league at a high level. He has another 3-5 as an elite player before he'll start to decline, much like Kobe has done this season.

-King- · 03-09-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The miles add up faster than we think.

LeBron James is a very big man with a lot of weight on his joints. Yeah, he's always been alarmingly quick and agile for his size, but he's also playing hell on his joints when he gets that much mass moving that quickly.

He has 670 NBA games on the odometer. He's still quick, but as you've mentioned, he's looked a little less explosive (relying on raw power).

He doesn't have 10 more years in this league at a high level. He has another 3-5 as an elite player before he'll start to decline, much like Kobe has done this season.

Except unlike Kobe, I don't think he'll have smarts to rely on when his athleticism is over.

WebGem · 03-09-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

You never saw Shaq play in his prime? He was a far more dominant player than James has been to date.

Obviously I did, and I guess yeah I didn't really think of Shaq for some reason. But Shaq has multiple rings, and he also fits in to the category of the guys who got past everything but Jordan in the mid 90s w/ the 95 Magic. So it still supports what I originally said in that I will be in shock if LeBron retires w/o a ring.

BIG_DADDY · 03-09-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebGem

This might be just me, but I really don't feel there was ever anyone (in the basketball I've seen [94-present]) not named Michael Jordan that seemed as dominant as LeBron. And MJ won 6. Plus the guys you're probably thinking of (Ewing, Barkley, Malone) are all the guys on the teams who were the last teams the Bulls had to beat in a decent percentage of those seasons. If it wasn't for the Bulls, Ewing would definitely have one, so would Malone, and Barkley possibly.

Again that's just me. But I'm sure most people would at the very least say (right now) they'd be pretty surprised if he retires without one, and a lot of people would be shocked.

LeChoke couldn't hold Kobe's jock strap. It cracks me up to see him fail again and he still has a crowd of you clowns calling him MVP.

chiefzilla1501 · 03-09-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Sorry DJ I am going to have to continue to disagree about the Cavs being a championship type team while Lebron was there, well at least the last 2 years.

If you look at recent championships they have their superstar(s) + they have a Tier 2-3 player(s). The Cavs didn't have that.

Heck if you go by this list they didn't have any in the top 5 Tiers

http://renuz.net/sections/Sports/s00...rticleID=10324

DJ's covered it well, but he's absolutely right. You're looking at this conventionally.

The stuff Anderson Varejao does down low isn't going to win him all star ballots, but he scraps, gets key rebounds, and knows how to defend in the paint. Booby Gibson and Moe Williams and even to some extent Delonte are not guys who will take over, but you get them an open shot and they're going to hit it (Moe less so in the playoffs). And again, let's not forget that the Cavs were also the #1 defensive team for long stretches under Mike Brown. You had shooters, rebounders, and terrific defenders--he had a lot more to work with than one might think.

I think back to the Bulls. A lot of people talk about Jordan having Pippen, and that's entirely true. But you know who the two absolute most underrated players on that team were? John Paxson and Horace Grant. Grant is no better than Varejao. Paxson is a more clutch version of Moe Williams. And they're certainly no Bosh or Wade. Sometimes you don't need to be a top tier player to have a tremendous impact on your team. In most years, the Bulls had Pippen and Jordan and a huge cast of tremendous role players. That's it.

WebGem · 03-09-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

LeChoke couldn't hold Kobe's jock strap. It cracks me up to see him fail again and he still has a crowd of you clowns calling him MVP.

LeBron is a more dominant player in the league than Kobe is, sorry but that's the truth.

chiefzilla1501 · 03-09-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

Except unlike Kobe, I don't think he'll have smarts to rely on when his athleticism is over.

This is one thing that's definitely worth mentioning.

I think what you saw in the playoffs in the past from LeBron was dominating performances, but you sensed that he just didn't have a killer instinct. He would always start off games as a drive-and-dish guy when they needed him to take over. Against Detroit, he was literally the entire Cavs team in the 4th quarter. Against Orlando, he hit a huge practically half court shot. But when the game was on the line, I just didn't see him take over games the way Jordan and Kobe did on a consistent basis in the playoffs. A lot of times, he went into drive-and-dish mode late in games when everyone wanted to see him just take over.

And I think that's where his legacy falls a little bit behind greats like Jordan and Kobe. Maybe it's because he had just way too many defenders up in his face. But I think we're seeing this year that maybe he just doesn't have the same kind of moxy that Kobe and MJ do. The thing about Kobe and MJ is that they are cocky AND arrogant. The thing that's really come out about LeBron, to me, is that he's cocky but still a bit defensive. And I wonder if that's some of why he's struggling a bit this year with the game on the line.

BIG_DADDY · 03-09-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebGem

LeBron is a more dominant player in the league than Kobe is, sorry but that's the truth.

He doesn't have the IT factor. He hates pressure and is not a team leader and lacks the heart of a real champion yet you call him the greatest since Jordon? Give me a friggen break man. LeEgo will never be remembered in the top 10.

DJ's left nut · 03-09-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebGem

LeBron is a more dominant player in the league than Kobe is, sorry but that's the truth.

Oh **** me.

Call me when LeBron drops 80 on a team or averages 35 in a season.

Or, I dunno, wins something.

Bryant at his peak was absolutely a more dominant force than LeBron has ever been. Bryant's slowing down now, certainly. But he's also 32 and is in his decline years. That doesn't diminish the fact that he was a damn terror at his apex.

07-09-2010, 09:30 AM
DaKCMan AP Beloved & Awesome CP Celebrity Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Florida Casino cash: $6584952	The MIA Heat Show Thread LA will be dethroned. The LAC Lake Show will be dead. So it's time to create a thread to follow the new dynasty. Going on tour starting this October.
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