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11-20-2012, 03:51 PM | #166 |
'Tis my eye!
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11-20-2012, 04:54 PM | #167 |
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I don't think I've ever agreed with Denise almost universally in a thread in the *gasp* 15-20 years I've known her. When did she get smart?
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11-20-2012, 04:56 PM | #168 | ||
Mindful Taoist German
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**** all of you for quoting her...
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11-20-2012, 05:35 PM | #169 |
Keep doubting J MFing Houston
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This is obviously more extreme than your situation, but the principle is the same.
Last edited by beach tribe; 11-20-2012 at 05:43 PM.. |
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11-20-2012, 05:57 PM | #170 | |
CHANGEd your mind yet????
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Unfortunately my opinion on this issue has been acquired the old fashioned way, through experience. I think the Mother was looking either to be rescued by her son or to have someone else to vilify instead of the BF. Maybe she didn't even know which she wanted. Either way, she put Tooge in a no win situation of which he needs to stay clear. He shouldn't be the one demanding the BF get counseling or go to AA. That is for his mother to demand and stick to. If neither the BF or the Mom are ready for that step, which it sounds like they are not, then Tooge becomes the villain and bad guy here. Don't allow the BF, or your Mother, off the hook that easy. Ultimately, she is choosing to allow herself to be mistreated IN HER OWN HOUSE.
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Meet the new boss same as the old boss. BigChiefDave:"Anyone who thought we would only be in Iraq for a few years is either stoned or just stoopid." "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last 6 days, 6 wks. I doubt 6 mths." Rummy 2/7/03 |
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11-20-2012, 06:01 PM | #171 | |
testing ... 1, 2, 3
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Yes, you're doing the right thing, Mr. tooge. Unquestionably. Your first responsibility is to your children now. Your mother has to make her own mistakes going forward (just as we all do) now that you are all grown up with kids of your own. Blackball this dumbass until he is gone (which won't be very long, I guarantee). If he isn't going to AA meetings, he isn't serious and he won't get better ... that, my friend, is another rock-solid guarantee. FAX |
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11-20-2012, 06:12 PM | #172 |
It's Five O'Clock Somewhere
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Damn dude, that sounds like a bad deal and I think you're doing the right thing. If the old boy gets out of line again, play it cool, buy him a one way ticket to Montana to do some ATVing and fly fishing with your "cousin's Bwana and rockymtnchief." He won't be found again until he turns into oil. There's a lot of open land up here.
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11-20-2012, 06:13 PM | #173 | |
On Hiatus
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And just to take it to the dark side....what happens if Mr. Fiance decides to take on Tooge and his kids are there to witness their dad getting beat on. While I am pretty sure that Tooge can take care of himself, what happens if Mr Fiance decides that Mr Ballbat or Mr Golf Club can make the score a little more even. Abuser don't care if the playing field is equal....all they care about is being on top. |
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11-20-2012, 11:32 PM | #174 | |
Replaced by a future HOFer !!
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The phrase, "taking some of the edge off" takes on a whole new meaning now doesn't it |
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11-20-2012, 11:47 PM | #175 | |
You think you can get by this?
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11-21-2012, 08:19 AM | #176 | |
Replaced by a future HOFer !!
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What I underlined in your quote is actually you being co-dependent to your mom and her attempt to manipulate your feelings using guilt. I realize you are new to all of this boundary setting and still learning to recognize the co-dependent emotional manipulation still attempted by the unrepentant enabler to the addict. But you will get much better at it as you keep setting your boundaries(sticking with your guns, as you say). You really don't give a shit about her BF's feelings nor should you. The only reason you said that was that old habit of her manipulating your feelings of feeling responsible for her feelings kicked in again. But you will get better at recognizing the manipulative games she plays. You see the 'enabler' is the alcoholic without the alcohol if that makes sense. Her addiction is to feel responsible for her dysfunctional drunk and get you to always feel responsible for her happiness(feelings) so she can continue the addiction that tears apart your family. The sick part of co-dependency is that if her BF truly got healthy taking responsibility for himself and his own feelings and respecting boundaries of others and setting his own boundaries and she still stayed the same she would move on from him and find another drunk to satisfy her addiction of taking care of and feeling responsible for that new drunk. Don't give in too soon either, because this is another game addicts play when the pain of reality starts to set in as the boundaries do their work(addict is no longer getting other people to clean up their messes-alone in their mud puddle of life). It usually takes a long time for true admittance of a problem and true remorse to take place. Hang in there brother and keep loving your kids and wife as you are doing. You are absolutely doing the right thing ! |
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11-21-2012, 09:15 AM | #177 | |
FINALLY! The wait is over.
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And on a side note, I'd like to give props to Chiefshrink. That was great stuff. I've said my fair share of nasty things to you in DC, and questioned whether or not you were a real psychologist, but no doubt you are. Fantastic analysis. |
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11-21-2012, 09:16 AM | #178 |
MVP
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Thanks man. I'm not giving in. I'll give her a call in a week or two just to say hello and talk small talk. The thing with the BF is that if he really was intending to get better and become part of the family, I would think he would remove himself from the situation for a few days so our family could be together. At least that is whay I'd do if I screwed a situation up and wanted back in. Anyhow, I've spoken to my brother, and while he and I have differing views on "second chances" about all this, he respects my decision and supports it. I'm gonna enjoy my family and a few days off, and I don't even have to travel now! Your advice has been invaluable Chiefshrink. I hope you don't mind that I've paraphrased you several times in discussing this with my wife and she is amazed how spot on you are about my mother, her actions, her manipulations, etc. Thanks again man. Have a great Thanksgiving. I know I will.
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11-22-2012, 01:06 PM | #179 | |
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One of the most unfortunate results and ulgiest things to witness in a co-dependent/addict that is not recovering is called "enmeshment". Early on in the family where kids and parents roles are reversed because 'boundaries' were never establised or followed. Kids were expected to be the responsible parent or the surrogate husband or surrogate wife of the co-dependent/addict(depending). And this is seen as normal for the kids because this is all they have known in this chaotic family but the kids don't see the chaos because chaos is normal for them. Thus over time the kids take on emotional, relational and physical responsibilities of the co-dependent/addict they were never intended to have let alone deal with the significant emotional damage from those childhood periods that takes years to work through. Based on you and your brother's conversation you and your brother have unknowningly took turns being the 'surrogate husband' for your mom since childhood with your brother still choosing 'unconsciously' of course to still be the surrogate husband. He differed with you about 'second chances'. The 'second chances' comment was a huge red flag for me about your brother still not getting the big picture and still playing the co-dependent surrogate husband role taking care and feeling responsible for her feelings and happiness. Whereas you on the other hand are figuring this whole relational cess pool out and now protecting yourself and your family until hopefully MOM gets it. I do agree you should not totally cut off communication with your Mom, BUT at this point in the process, because this family wound is so new and sensitive and you are just now learning about 'Family Dynamics of Addiction' and your past role in it and learning how not to play that role; I would stay away for awhile and let her make the first move. She has drawn 'first blood' on you kids for decades now. The insanity needs to stop. And when she does contact you in due time( and she will because in her eyes you are still her emotional surrogate husband) you need to make sure there is no small talk. Substance only, because there is a huge family elephant in the room that needs to be dealt with. This will be a big emotional test for you as you get better. The more you deal straight with your Mom the less it will bother you emotionally not to rescue her in the future and thus you become stronger emotionally for yourself and your family 'for a change'. And man does that feel so liberating and refreshing that life could be this good. Whatever you do, do not push any of these co-dependent books or help on her. That would be 'co-dependent' and would stifle your recovery because once again your focus is distracted away from you and your family in feeling responsible for her getting better. She is responsible for her own recovery and you can't fix her/change her, PERIOD. Keep up the great work and be emotionally courageous in all your new personal endeavors of discovering a great new life !!! Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family and all here at CP !!!
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Last edited by Chiefshrink; 11-22-2012 at 09:18 PM.. |
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11-22-2012, 04:30 PM | #180 |
Mama Tried
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Drink all his booze and kick his teeth in.
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