Smoking Ban!!! - Page 12

Halfcan · 11-14-2005, 11:36 PM

Full Smoking ban in Fairway KS.

Does anyone care?

11-17-2005, 05:26 PM

Good!! People that smoke are trashy losers. I hope it gets banned everywhere.

**AustinChief** · 11-17-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

To anyone here that supports a smoking ban because they "don't like the smell of it".. you are worthless a$$holes... end of story.

Is it your ****ing right to tell me as a business owner what I allow in MY bar? I guess you can hide behind "majority rule"... of course that same logic would dictate that if the majority didn't like blacks.. you could vite to ban them, as well.

This country was PRIMARILY founded upon property rights issues (see Locke)... and shit like this is ignorant(at best) and fascist(Hitler was one of the first to outlaw smoking).

Can any of you legitimately say that this is a PROPER use of the law? "because you don't like it".. well eat a dick, stay the **** home or go to a nonsmoking bar... don't whine to your city council like a bitch.

In my opinion, you better have a DAMN good reason to create a law... because taken to its logical conclusion.. law equals violence.

Do any of you truly think it is your right to force an owner of a private business to cater to your olfactory whims?

--Kyle

...to repost my feelings on anyone who wants to make LAWS that violate a business owwer's property rights just because "they don't like it"...

What has this country come to?

I am becoming thoroughly intolerant of intolerance.

**Mr. Kotter** · 11-17-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

...to repost my feelings on anyone who wants to make LAWS that violate a business owwer's property rights just because "they don't like it"...

What has this country come to?

I am becoming thoroughly intolerant of intolerance.

Would this be a bad time to ask about dividing the ChiefsPlanet Lounge into smoking and non-smoking sections?

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-17-2005, 07:11 PM

To take the choice away from the owners of business establishments is treason. It entirely goes against our constitution.

I don't see where it's stated in the Constitution where smoking should be legal everywhere. Smoking isn't a "Right". It's a priviledge. And it's become a priviledge throughout the US only under certain circumstances. It seems from the replies here that most smokers don't want to recognize that smoking is banned in public places is because it IS a public health hazard. For every study saying that "Secondhand smoke isn't as bad as portrayed", there's people dying from continued exposure to secondhand smoke. Try having allergies to cigarette smoke, then tell me that it's not harmful.

It's ludicrous for anyone to think that bars and restaurants will lose ANY business because smoking is not allowed! What, smokers in the midwest aren't going to want social interaction or good food because they can't smoke? Give me a break! There's been a ban in California for 10 years, and believe me, every restaurant and nightclub is jam packed every single night. I can't tell you how nice it is to go out and not have to dry clean or wash my clothes just because I went to a bar or restaurant. In KC, that's EXACTLY what my wife and I had to do last month because the ventilation was so poor that we both stunk, had headaches in the morning, as well as the "burnt" lung feeling. Anyone here that thinks that second hand smoke isn't harmful isn't being intellectually honest.

Dane
~sticking his feet in the "fire"

**AustinChief** · 11-18-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Anyone here that thinks that second hand smoke isn't harmful isn't being intellectually honest.

Dane
~sticking his feet in the "fire"

No, what is intellectually dishonest(or maybe just lazy) is to accept that second hand smoke is harmful because you WANT to believe it is.. not based on ANY facts. Do the research, brush up on toxicology, dig a little deeper than what is spoon fed to you from the media.

Here is a FACT for you.. the President/Founder of the American Council on Science and Health, Elizabeth M. Whelan, Sci.D., M.P.H. ...

a women who wrote a book titled "A Smoking Gun - How the Tobacco Industry Gets Away with Murder" .. has stated that the evidence linking ETS and health conserns is extremely "scanty"... this coming from a women who WANTS there to be evidence but is HONEST enough to admit that nothing conclusive is out there.

Please don't talk to me about intellectual honesty until you have taken the time to do the research... I have never seen ANYONE make the effort and not come to the same conclusion... the problem is that everyone would rather be spoon fed information then do the research

**AustinChief** · 11-18-2005, 12:38 PM

and Dane.. you are correct, there is no "right to smoke" .. but there are rights for property owners to decide how they run their businesses... if you can PROVE (no one has yet to do so in an american court) that ETS has harmful effects beyond being irritating... than maybe you have a legal leg to stand on.. otherwise this is pure majority bullying.

Here is a great argument that I wish I had though of myself...
http://www.forestonline.org/output/Page16.asp In the beginning of the article, the author talks about the "name three" principle... (a more in depth explanation is here http://www.davehitt.com/2004/name_three.html )

If millions of people have died from ETS... name three.

--Kyle

**AustinChief** · 11-18-2005, 01:04 PM

And here is some more info for anyone who cares about the FACTS...

NUMBER OF CIGARETTES REQUIRED TO REACH A THRESHOLD LIMIT FROM ETS IN A SEALED, UNVENTILATED 100m3 ENCLOSURE AT STANDARD TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE

http://www.davehitt.com/facts/howmany.html

The dose makes the poison... look at this from a SCIENTIFIC view... from the view of a toxicologist.

--Kyle

Inspector · 11-18-2005, 02:31 PM

Kyle -

In regards to your recent posts on this thread:

Halfcan · 11-18-2005, 08:07 PM

Great post Austin Chief.

So who is a smoker on here-go ahead fess up.

**DaneMcCloud** · 11-18-2005, 08:58 PM

Kyle,

I understand and respect your viewpoint. But why is it that Surgeon General of the US is urging people not to smoke? Why is it that anytime I go to a doctor, the first thing they ask is "Do you smoke?" (which I don't and never even tried it). When my father was 45, the doctor said to stop smoking; you're killing yourself. There's not a single doctor in the world that says smoking is healthy and not harmful.

Now whether or not you chose to believe that second hand smoke is harmful is your decision. But I can personally attest to the fact that every time I visit a smokey bar, my eyes dry up, I get headaches and my throat is sore the next day. There's no way in the world that anyone can convince that long term exposure to smokey bars and restaurants won't affect my health. I've felt it firsthand.

Dane

Halfcan · 11-18-2005, 09:33 PM

Dane, great post. Smoke, whether it is first or second hand is harmful. I worked in it and was sick often. Since I quit that environment, I have not been sick at all.

On the other hand, I think Pot should be legal. What do you guys think?

stevieray · 11-18-2005, 10:47 PM

let's ignore the facts because we don't like the way it smells.

**RNR** · 11-18-2005, 11:48 PM

How about I own the place and you can smoke in here, or I own the place and you can not smoke here? Or has this pc bullshit got to the point that the government must make the choice for us?

**AustinChief** · 11-19-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Kyle,

Now whether or not you chose to believe that second hand smoke is harmful is your decision. But I can personally attest to the fact that every time I visit a smokey bar, my eyes dry up, I get headaches and my throat is sore the next day. There's no way in the world that anyone can convince that long term exposure to smokey bars and restaurants won't affect my health. I've felt it firsthand.

Dane

The argument is not about PRIMARY smoke.. only ETS.

So dry eyes and a sore throat are precursers to what deadly disease? Irritation does not a health risk make. If you look WAAAY back in this thread I brought out the point that people who suffer from Bell's Palsy have to deal with EXTREME discomfirt when exposed to loud noises (i.e. a live band). Should we outlaw live music in bars for them? People with meningitis are often very sensitive to light... should we require that bars install no higher than 40 watt bulbs?

You have NOT felt it firsthand... what you have felt is discomfirt due to a sensitivity to smoke. If you work at an onion cutting plant (I know I made that up) wouldn't you leave work every day with a certain amount of discomfirt? Does that mean it is a "health risk"?

The point is that your "discomfirt" does not equal a public health risk. Once again I challenge you to show a legitimate relative risk factor. Just because you "feel" it is a health hazard or the media tells you that it is.. doesn't make it so.

Over-Head · 11-19-2005, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Full Smoking ban in Fairway KS.

Does anyone care?

Been that way here in NL for a LONG time now.
Sucks too.

11-14-2005, 11:36 PM
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Smoking Ban!!! Full Smoking ban in Fairway KS. Does anyone care?
Posts: 43,200

11-17-2005, 05:26 PM	#166
reddick Guest Casino cash: $	Good!! People that smoke are trashy losers. I hope it gets banned everywhere.
Posts: n/a

11-17-2005, 07:11 PM	#169
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	To take the choice away from the owners of business establishments is treason. It entirely goes against our constitution. I don't see where it's stated in the Constitution where smoking should be legal everywhere. Smoking isn't a "Right". It's a priviledge. And it's become a priviledge throughout the US only under certain circumstances. It seems from the replies here that most smokers don't want to recognize that smoking is banned in public places is because it IS a public health hazard. For every study saying that "Secondhand smoke isn't as bad as portrayed", there's people dying from continued exposure to secondhand smoke. Try having allergies to cigarette smoke, then tell me that it's not harmful. It's ludicrous for anyone to think that bars and restaurants will lose ANY business because smoking is not allowed! What, smokers in the midwest aren't going to want social interaction or good food because they can't smoke? Give me a break! There's been a ban in California for 10 years, and believe me, every restaurant and nightclub is jam packed every single night. I can't tell you how nice it is to go out and not have to dry clean or wash my clothes just because I went to a bar or restaurant. In KC, that's EXACTLY what my wife and I had to do last month because the ventilation was so poor that we both stunk, had headaches in the morning, as well as the "burnt" lung feeling. Anyone here that thinks that second hand smoke isn't harmful isn't being intellectually honest. Dane ~sticking his feet in the "fire"
Posts: 88,960

11-18-2005, 12:38 PM	#171
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2189112	and Dane.. you are correct, there is no "right to smoke" .. but there are rights for property owners to decide how they run their businesses... if you can PROVE (no one has yet to do so in an american court) that ETS has harmful effects beyond being irritating... than maybe you have a legal leg to stand on.. otherwise this is pure majority bullying. Here is a great argument that I wish I had though of myself... http://www.forestonline.org/output/Page16.asp In the beginning of the article, the author talks about the "name three" principle... (a more in depth explanation is here http://www.davehitt.com/2004/name_three.html ) If millions of people have died from ETS... name three. --Kyle
Posts: 19,601

11-18-2005, 01:04 PM	#172
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2189112	And here is some more info for anyone who cares about the FACTS... *NUMBER OF CIGARETTES REQUIRED TO REACH A THRESHOLD LIMIT FROM ETS IN A SEALED, UNVENTILATED* 100m3 ENCLOSURE AT STANDARD TEMPERATURE AND PRESSURE** http://www.davehitt.com/facts/howmany.html The dose makes the poison... look at this from a SCIENTIFIC view... from the view of a toxicologist. --Kyle
Posts: 19,601

11-18-2005, 02:31 PM	#173
Inspector MVP Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: K.C. Casino cash: $9924975	Kyle - In regards to your recent posts on this thread:
Posts: 7,907

11-18-2005, 08:07 PM	#174
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Great post Austin Chief. So who is a smoker on here-go ahead fess up.
Posts: 43,200

11-18-2005, 08:58 PM	#175
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Kyle, I understand and respect your viewpoint. But why is it that Surgeon General of the US is urging people not to smoke? Why is it that anytime I go to a doctor, the first thing they ask is "Do you smoke?" (which I don't and never even tried it). When my father was 45, the doctor said to stop smoking; you're killing yourself. There's not a single doctor in the world that says smoking is healthy and not harmful. Now whether or not you chose to believe that second hand smoke is harmful is your decision. But I can personally attest to the fact that every time I visit a smokey bar, my eyes dry up, I get headaches and my throat is sore the next day. There's no way in the world that anyone can convince that long term exposure to smokey bars and restaurants won't affect my health. I've felt it firsthand. Dane
Posts: 88,960

11-18-2005, 09:33 PM	#176
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Dane, great post. Smoke, whether it is first or second hand is harmful. I worked in it and was sick often. Since I quit that environment, I have not been sick at all. On the other hand, I think Pot should be legal. What do you guys think?
Posts: 43,200

11-18-2005, 10:47 PM	#177
stevieray best in the biz Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $2025273	let's ignore the facts because we don't like the way it smells.
Posts: 71,640

11-18-2005, 11:48 PM	#178
RNR America is great assholes~ Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: In some people's mind~ Casino cash: $10027990	How about I own the place and you can smoke in here, or I own the place and you can not smoke here? Or has this pc bullshit got to the point that the government must make the choice for us? __________________ The Trump campaign and Black Lives Matter movement are perfect for each other. Both sides filled with easily led and angry nitwits convinced they are victims~
Posts: 31,085