The Pioli Poll

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I was excited when we hired Pioli. I was apparently an idiot.

What could go wrong? A guy from the front office of the best team in the NFL... executive of the year... a couple Super-Bowl teams he helped build. How was this not a major upgrade over Carl?

Long story short... do you still believe Peeholey can build a winning team or not?

(I know some didn't believe it from the start... geniuses)

*not this shit again*
**stupid thread moron**
***why do you even try to start football threads***
****tl;dr**** Pioli

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by milkman

I don't give a rat's ass how effectively you are running the ball.

At some point the QB has to convert 3rd downs, and Orton was far more effective at moving the chains than Matt Cassel has ever been.

I can't believe I'm arguing about Orton being better than Cassel, but he is.

Orton sucks ass, but Cassel is like a guy that is balls deep at a Lane Bryant convention.

I agree.

He sucks at making the plays he has to make. He chokes and doesn't have an ounce of "clutch" in his veins. This is my biggest gripe about the guy. It can't be fixed and it's not something you can learn. You either have it or you don't. Orton is more likely to do it every now and again.

I get so sick of people talking about his pocket presence, his arm strength, and his accuracy. That's not the problem. The problem is he's missing the intanigibles up to this point. The ability to put it on his shoulders and carry the team. The abiltity to "will" wins.

Maybe he can grow in this area? I doubt it but maybe. Alex Smith did it last year. I was encouraged by the hurry drive the other night. If that had been a real game, we would have HAD to score on that drive to have any chance. He made the play when he had to and it was a good one. People laughed and made fun of his celebration but it was good to see him loose. He seems to have a **** it attitude and I think he realizes he can't be perfect.

All I know is that we have to get ahead of teams and hang on. That's our formula for success and I believe we have the weapons to do it. This was Green bay's formula in 2010. They never trailed in the playoffs and Rodgers is not good at coming back.

I also think he will be better with Daboll. The offense has been taylored to Cassel's strong points and he has the ability to change the plays.

He never got this with Haley. It's the same thing Big Ben is going through right now.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I don't know? I'm sure it had to with the gameplan. Oakland's secondary stunk. The gameplan against Denver was running the clock and winning with defense. All I know is McClain was never part of Haley's gameplan and he wasted him.

Seriously man, I'm not going to go all milkman on you but this is horseshit.

McClain had 8 touches against Green Bay (under RAC) and 6 touches against Detroit (under Haley). He had no more than 2 touches in any other game all year, regardless of who was head coach.

Furthermore, you're trying to suggest that McClain should have been used to run the ball and shelter Cassel, yet the reason he wasn't used against Denver was because the goal was to control the clock and win with defense.

You're contradicting yourself.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I agree.

He sucks at making the plays he has to make. He chokes and doesn't have an ounce of "clutch" in his veins. This is my biggest gripe about the guy. It can't be fixed and it's not something you can learn. You either have it or you don't. Orton is more likely to do it every now and again.

I get so sick of people talking about his pocket presence, his arm strength, and his accuracy. That's not the problem. The problem is he's missing the intanigibles up to this point. The ability to put it on his shoulders and carry the team. The abiltity to will wins.

Maybe he can grow in this area? I doubt it but maybe. Alex Smith did it last year. I was encouraged by the hurry drive the other night. If that had been a real game, we would have HAD to score on that drive to have any chance. He made the play when he had to and it was a good one.

All I know is that we have to get ahead of people and hang on. That's our formula for success and I believe we have the weapons to do it.

I also think he will be better with Daboll. The offense has been taylored to Cassel's strong points and he has the ability to change the plays.

He never got this with Haley. It's the same thing Big Ben is going through right now.

And that just leads us back to the point that htismaque made.

Better than bad does not equal good.

Bottom line is this.

We doing nothing but spinning our wheels with Matt Cassel at the helm.

I firmly believe he's going to put up some respectable numbers, but at the end of the day, you can not win with him, and until we get a QB that we can win with, it's just wasted seasons.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Seriously man, I'm not going to go all milkman on you but this is horseshit.

McClain had 8 touches against Green Bay (under RAC) and 6 touches against Detroit (under Haley). He had no more than 2 touches in any other game all year, regardless of who was head coach.

Furthermore, you're trying to suggest that McClain should have been used to run the ball and shelter Cassel, yet the reason he wasn't used against Denver was because the goal was to control the clock and win with defense.

You're contradicting yourself.

I am saying we should have run the ball more and run more effectivley. I'm not contradicting myself. Haley gave up on McClain quick. I'm saying Haley didn't know how to run the ball. The most important thing you should take away from 2010 is that we lead the league in rushing.

We are trying to win with Cassel and we need to run the ball. KC is built to run the ball. With Charlie Weis as OC last year, we would have won more games.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Seriously man, I'm not going to go all milkman on you but this is horseshit.

McClain had 8 touches against Green Bay (under RAC) and 6 touches against Detroit (under Haley). He had no more than 2 touches in any other game all year, regardless of who was head coach.

Furthermore, you're trying to suggest that McClain should have been used to run the ball and shelter Cassel, yet the reason he wasn't used against Denver was because the goal was to control the clock and win with defense.

You're contradicting yourself.

I only go "all milkman" on dumbasses who simply ignore the points that I am discussing.

Bob here, while failing to adequately address the points, has attempted to do just that.

I can have a civil debate in these type of discussions.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by milkman

And that just leads us back to the point that htismaque made.

Better than bad does not equal good.

Bottom line is this.

We doing nothing but spinning our wheels with Matt Cassel at the helm.

I firmly believe he's going to put up some respectable numbers, but at the end of the day, you can not win with him, and until we get a QB that we can win with, it's just wasted seasons.

Maybe so but, again, QBs don't grow on trees and it could be worse. You can't just try out QBs at the expense of your players. Winning is the most important thing.

It's like I said, indifference is worse than hate. Hating Cassel is better than not caring. It can get worse. There is still a tad bit of hope in everyone here.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

Maybe so but, again, QBs don't grow on trees and it could be worse. You can't just try out QBs at the expense of your players. Winning is the most important thing.

It's like I said, indifference is worse than hate. Hating Cassel is better than not caring. It can get worse. There is still a tad bit of hope in everyone here.

My hope lies in the fact that this roster is improved, and has the potential to be very good.

But make no mistake, even if everything else comes together, I have no hope that this team will find a way to the SB with Matt Cassel at QB.

He's 30 years old, 7 years in the league, 4 years as a starter.

He's not going to wake up some morning and suddenly have an epiphany and get it.

He is exactly the same guy he was in '08.

A physically limited QB who lacks the mental tools to be anything more.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I am saying we should have run the ball more and run more effectivley. I'm not contradicting myself. Haley gave up on McClain quick. I'm saying Haley didn't know how to run the ball. The most important thing you should take away from 2010 is that we lead the league in rushing.

We are trying to win with Cassel and we need to run the ball. KC is built to run the ball. With Charlie Weis as OC last year, we would have won more games.

In case you missed it, Jamaal Charles missed almost all of last season.

[Black Bob]

Originally Posted by Dave

In case you missed it, Jamaal Charles missed almost all of last season.

You are right and that's my point. Without big time playmakers like Charles, Fitzgerald, and Warner, Haley was nothing.

Originally Posted by BoneKrusher

and thankfully Cassel had nothing to do with it.

Smartass

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I am saying we should have run the ball more and run more effectivley. I'm not contradicting myself. Haley gave up on McClain quick. I'm saying Haley didn't know how to run the ball. The most important thing you should take away from 2010 is that we lead the league in rushing.

We are trying to win with Cassel and we need to run the ball. KC is built to run the ball. With Charlie Weis as OC last year, we would have won more games.

In 2010, we rushed the ball 35 times per game in games where Cassel started.

In 2011, we rushed the ball 31 times per game in games where Cassel started, despite a sample size HALF of 2010 that includes the Buffalo debacle.

Furthermore, as I already pointed out, Romeo didn't use McClain either - he had all of 3 touches in the final 2 games, including one where you say we were trying to pound the ball and run out the clock.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by jspchief

I think ultimately Pioli's legacy in KC will be his inability to deviate from the Patriots. Cassel, Crennel, Daboll, draft picks trying to make the 3-4 work, etc.

He doesn't appear to be capable of doing anything other than trying to replicate what he had in NE as if it's a paint by numbers. That tunnel vision approach will be what ends his stint in KC.

or he could find a quality QB in the middle rounds and bring KC a perennial super bowl challenger type team.

but don't like any positive thoughts get in your way

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Laz

or he could find a quality QB in the middle rounds and bring KC a perennial super bowl challenger type team.

but don't like any positive thoughts get in your way

Is it possible? Sure.

Is it PROBABLE? No, not at all.

There's nothing wrong with having a little hope. But any more hope than a "little" and you're probably just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

Of course, fans of about 26-27 NFL teams could say the same thing.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

setting yourself up to be disappointed.

We are KC fans ... what do you expect?


we've been set up for disappointment in every sport for decades





fyi: Cassel is in the QB top 10 of virtually every category for this preseason.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by BlackBob

I am saying we should have run the ball more and run more effectivley. I'm not contradicting myself. Haley gave up on McClain quick. I'm saying Haley didn't know how to run the ball. The most important thing you should take away from 2010 is that we lead the league in rushing. We are trying to win with Cassel and we need to run the ball. KC is built to run the ball. With Charlie Weis as OC last year, we would have won more games.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Laz

We are KC fans ... what do you expect?


we've been set up for disappointment in ever sport for decades





fyi: Cassel is in the QB top 10 of virtually every category for this preaseason.

Where's he rank in ypa?