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Old 02-13-2016, 01:12 AM  
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***Official 2016 STL Cardinals Thread***
  • 2011 World Series Championship
  • 2012 NLCS. One win from another WS appearance.
  • 2013 World Series. Two wins from another World Series Championship
  • 2014 NLCS. Three wins from another WS appearance
  • 2015 Central Division title. Won 100 games. Lost in the NLDS.
  • Made the postseason 11 times in the last 15 seasons.
  • 67 post season wins since 2004. 24+ wins more than any other team.
SI article on our off season, Gives us a "A". ??:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/02/12/win...ouis-cardinals

2015 III thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=295296
2015 II thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293412
2015 I thread:
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=289085
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:46 PM   #1951
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im thinking Carp this year and next at 1b. Carp is not that good at 3b. He is good at 2b. But as long as Gyrko is smashing homers, you need him there. Carp looks to be able to pick balls at 1b pretty good. Next year you are bringing up Kelly to begin replacing Molina. Molina will play some 1b.

Moss is going to get big time money. Take the draft pick.

I'll yield to your analysis on Baders readiness. But everything I've read says he is a major league player in waiting.
You can't just plug Gyorko in as a starter; his way too prone to slumps. He's perfect where he is, as a frequently used role player. Once you start relying on him for 600 ABs, you're back to where SD was with him. The holes in his swing (and his general lack of athleticism) make him a bad fit as a full-time starter.

Peralta's a problem, I'll grant you. And if he's healthy, Matheny's going to play him. And the only place he can play these days is 3b so I guess that would leave Carpenter at 1b, but that's still only a 1 year fix and again presumes that Bader's ready next season. He won't be; he's getting beat up now that he's not in the hitter-friendly Texas league. More growth is needed there. If he's not ready, you have a Pham - Grichuk - Piscotty OF, which is virtually guaranteed to have at least one of those three either injured or slumping for the entire season.

This offense only works this year because of its depth and Moss is a big big part of that. If the Cards are content with just stockpiling draft picks, they should be trading off guys like Peralta and Garcia anyway because they aren't going to win anything with Pham - Grichuk - Piscotty in the OF and Peralta - Diaz- Wong - Carpenter on the IF.

Seriously, look at the lineup your plan gives us. That's ghastly, man.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:50 PM   #1952
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Why not just keep moss, put him at first and not worry about that for a while?

Put carpenter at 2nd, Diaz at ss, peralta at 3rd and let Wong do whatever?
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:03 PM   #1953
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Why not just keep moss, put him at first and not worry about that for a while?
we are getting and are old. Molina, Holliday, Peralta, Waino even Carp is not a spring chicken anymore. We need to turn over the roster soon. We have a good track record picking at the bottom of the 1st round. Take the pick.
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:14 PM   #1954
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we are getting and are old. Molina, Holliday, Peralta, Waino even Carp is not a spring chicken anymore. We need to turn over the roster soon. We have a good track record picking at the bottom of the 1st round. Take the pick.
See, the guys on TV keep saying that, but it's not entirely accurate.

We have more hits than misses and by a fair amount. Granted, it's early to start the clock running on Plummer, but he lost yet another year of development this season.

Since Mozeliak took over you have Mortenson, Kozma, Wallace, Jenkins, Blair, Cox, Bean, Wisdom, Ramsey, Kaminsky and Gonzalez that either won't amount to much or don't appear likely to amount to much.

You have Plummer, Woodford, Weaver and Flaherty that are probably too soon to tell.

Leaving Piscotty, Miller , Lynn Wacha and Wong as relatively successful first rounders but with Wacha, Miller and Wong being picked at 19, 19 and 22 respecitvely; well before the mid-30s guys we'd be looking at with a comp pick.

In 10 years, you can find 2 picks we nailed in the comp pick range; Lynn and Piscotty. Now that's not a bad hit rate, but it's not a great one either.

Look, I have no problem with rebuilding this squad and said that's exactly what I'd do last off-season. But if they're not going to actually commit to a rebuild and look for takers for guys like Wainwright, Garcia and Peralta, then they shouldn't half-ass it and take picks instead of a legitimate source of premier LH power.
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:17 PM   #1955
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we are getting and are old. Molina, Holliday, Peralta, Waino even Carp is not a spring chicken anymore. We need to turn over the roster soon. We have a good track record picking at the bottom of the 1st round. Take the pick.
You also need a decent 1st baseman with some power. Moss could do it for 2 or 3 years while your picks mature.

The old guys need to go sure, but not just because they're old. Because they aren't producing.
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:43 PM   #1956
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Walker Robbins and Dylan Carlson are 5 years away if you're lucky.

And look in front of them....there's nothing. We've been waiting on Jonathan Rodriguez for several years; turns out he's probably just shitty.

Our High A 1b is a 24 yr old who's only recently broken a .700 OPS. The only 1b in the entire system that's giving you tolerable production for a 1b is Luke Voit and he's a 25 yr old in AA who's probably just doing what everyone in Springfield does; picks on a shitty pitcher's league. David Washington? He's played a little 1b and is actually hitting some in Memphis. But at 25 and with his super slow progress (8th year in the system), he looks a lot more like Xavier Scruggs than any kind of actual major leaguer.

It's almost impossible to overstate how barren the sticks are in this system, at least anywhere near the show. And to BRC's point, that would somewhat support trying to stockpile picks, but not when you have nobody to backfill who you're letting go, not unless you're ready to rebuild.
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:18 AM   #1957
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Why not just keep moss, put him at first and not worry about that for a while?

Put carpenter at 2nd, Diaz at ss, peralta at 3rd and let Wong do whatever?
Moss isn't a full time player. Just look at his splits. He can't hit LHP at all. He's a platoon player.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:02 PM   #1958
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:04 PM   #1959
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:46 PM   #1960
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Wow, pile on a few more. Good to see Grichuk hitting again.

Gyorko was a ****ing steal.
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:54 PM   #1961
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Close her out Reyes.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:10 PM   #1962
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Close her out Reyes.
Interesting call by Matheny, but it worked. I probably would have gone Bowman there.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:37 PM   #1963
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Interesting call by Matheny, but it worked. I probably would have gone Bowman there.
Dude throws smoke.

High water mark of the season.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:57 PM   #1964
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im thinking Carp this year and next at 1b. Carp is not that good at 3b. He is good at 2b. But as long as Gyrko is smashing homers, you need him there. Carp looks to be able to pick balls at 1b pretty good. Next year you are bringing up Kelly to begin replacing Molina. Molina will play some 1b.

Moss is going to get big time money. Take the draft pick. Do we know for sure which Moss we would get? 2015 or 2016 Moss?

I'll yield to your analysis on Baders readiness. But everything I've read says he is a major league player in waiting.
There's no reason for Moss to leave. The Cardinals currently have 0 replacements for him.

Also, the Cardinals can afford to spend more money (especially after the TV deal they signed.

They're paying $80 million for Leake. They can afford Moss. Moss will likely, if I had to guess, not get more than 3 years.

You keep mentioning these picks. Well, guess how many of the compensatory picks under Mo's watch ended up becoming a productive player for the Cardinals? 2. Lynn and Piscotty.

Blair flamed out, Jenkins is in Atlanta, Bean isn't going in the right direction, and Carlson/Hudson/Flaherty are TBD.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:58 PM   #1965
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Blair flamed out, Jenkins is in Atlanta, Bean isn't going in the right direction, and Carlson/Hudson/Flaherty are TBD.
So one flamed out

One helped us get a 5 WAR player and another comp pick

And 4 are undecided.

Doesn't sound like an epic fail to me yet.
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